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Abelard's Notes on Shopping in Verbobonc
Hello all... here's something you could find useful.

My players are doing some selling and shopping for magic items in Verbobonc. One player in particular (Maldonado, if you're reading my logs) is very much a bargain-hunter so I actually went into some detail about the market for magic items in Verbobonc.

This little shopping expedition is still in progress, so I can't swear there's nothing broken about my scheme yet. But I'll post if anything develops.

My Verbobonc is based on that big 3D perspective map that can be found on the web - I don't know the original source, but I've seen it discussed here. So some of my shop names were taken from the key to that map, but the descriptions and such are my own.

One other thing. I did actually go through and roll to see how many high level NPCs there are of each class in the city, as described in the DMG. I'm not going to post that long boring list, but keep that in mind. Some of my decisions about stuff are based on knowing, for example, how many wizards of level 6+ live in the city. YMMV - though I suspect it would tend to even out.

The market idea is to try to make some rational sense of "any item up to 40,000 gp is usually available" without having some ridiculous uber-magic shop with every item from the DMG shrink-wrapped and hanging on the shelf. It's also a way for players who enjoy this kind of thing (such as my Maldonado) to feel like they're gaining and advantage by wheeling and dealing. But I as DM retain final say over what is a "high demand" item and whether buyers can be found for particular items, so the players hopefully can't run roughshod over the economy. Having it happen once a week means that hopefully the players will still have to deal with the shops sometimes (if they can't wait around for the next Starday).

Also, my players are 5th level. I'm thinking that the shops will have some moderate items and maybe even a handful of major items in stock too, but my players can't afford that stuff yet, so it isn't mentioned.

(This is culled from emails sent to my players, so they're addressed to them. Maldonado had an idea to trade a ring of mind shielding to a wizard's guild for 4 custom-made items of slightly lesser value. So that's how my information starts. Also, they're trying to sell the scepter with violet gems found in the moathouse, value 1,000 gp.)
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After a brief wait, a youngish mage wearing a silver robe attends you. He listens to your offer with polite interest, then asks to examine the ring. He casts a spell, then addresses you. "The Consortium is occasionally interested in purchasing rare and magical items recovered by adventurers. However, our interests are fairly specific: tomes of lore, scrolls of rare spells, divination or related items, et cetera."

He concentrates silently on the ring. "Generally the kinds of items we are interested in are more powerful than this, or at least a bit more unusual. I'm sorry. We don't generally manufacture magic items for sale, either. You might try Segemm's over in the Civic Center, on the northeast side of the cathedral square. I believe they buy magical rings. Also, many independent crafters and tradesmen gather in the Trader's Market every Starday. Many of them will agree to craft items in exchange for gold." (You think you detect a hint of distaste for the concept of creating items for money...)

=====
The Traders Market:

The three of you spend a few hours wandering around this bustling market, examining wares and asking questions. The goods on sale today are mostly mundane items; there are a lot of wines, liquors, and other foodstuffs being sold. But you do learn a lot about the trade in magical items here.

First of all you can buy any regular, masterwork or alchemical item at list price here, from a variety of merchants. All potions are also available at list price, as are scrolls of any spell from the PHB that are level 2 or lower. You can also get them to cast level 2 or lower spells for you at the book price. (These items can be purchased any day of the week, not just Starday.)

Second, by asking around you determine that in fact there is a magic item market held Starday afternoon. There is some buying, selling and trading of items under the supervision of priests of Zilchus. They take a commission (25%) on each item sold, or 15% cash fee on trades (each party pays 15% of the value of what he receives in the trade). The priests of Zilchus, with help from a couple of priests of Boccob, certify that items are properly identified and make sure that no cursed items or items of obviously evil provenance are sold (ring of mind shielding would be okay, book of vile darkness or assassin's dagger wouldn't be).

Since you'll be likely to want to make deals quickly, while most of the buyers and sellers there aren't in any particular hurry, you'll probably end up eating these tax costs most of the time. I'll let you have a diplomacy check to convince the other party to share some of these costs.

Assuming that you don't succeed in the diplomacy check... on any given Starday:
1. You can find a fairly wide selection of items for sale at 125% book cost. Say a 50% chance for any specific item with a value of 10,000 gp or less, and a 25% chance for any item with a value between 10,000 gp and 30,000 gp, and a 10% chance for any item valued between 30,000gp and 40,000gp.
2. You can sell any item at 75% of book cost or trade them at 85% of book cost - if you can find someone interested in the particular item, which may not always be easy.
3. A high demand, particularly useful item will give you a good bonus on your diplomacy check to sell or trade; conversely, this will give you a penalty on your diplomacy check if you're the buyer.

Apparently some merchants and stores, including Segemm's, are granted special tax privileges by the Viscount. Those blessed with these privileges form a de-facto merchant elite. Each has different terms and agreements with the Viscount, some made generations ago, some bought (or extorted) more recently. The merchants try to keep the exact terms of these grants secret both from customers and each other; they lose negotiating strength if their adversary knows exactly what their costs are.

Some of the other merchants in this group that deal in magical items include Jala (Jala's Armory and Weaponsmithy), Nib (Nib's Importers), Ulmyrios (Ulmyrios the Bowyer), and Clotho (Clotho's Clothes).

It seems obvious that there must be a black market in magic items for shifty types who want to dodge these taxes and fees. But just as obviously the trader's market is not the place to find out about that. It'll take a full day plus a successful Gather Information check to get a solid contact in the black market. Of course, when dealing with the black market, in addition to possible trouble with the authorities you'll run the risk of getting ripped off or defrauded by the people you deal with. Many people prefer to trade exclusively in the official market under the watch of the Zilchus priests for this very reason, despite the expense.

Makers of magical items also come to the market on Starday. They operate under different terms, as their business is considered artisanship rather than commerce. They contract to make magic items for order, and must only pay a nominal annual fee to the temple of Zilchus, the cost of which they spread across many sales. Generally, they're not interested in trading for other items - they work for cash.

So essentially they will make magic items for book cost or close to book cost. You can assume that you can get any item requiring a caster level of 5 or less crafted automatically and at book price - there are many people who can make these things for you. Caster levels from 6 to 10 aren't going to be too difficult to find a maker, though at caster level 9 and 10 you may have to wait up to a week for the crafter to fit you in to his schedule. Over caster level 11 is possible but may cost higher than book price and will certainly take a while, since there aren't more than a handful of magic item crafters of that power in the city and they are usually in high demand.

Magic items take 1 day per 1,000 gp of value to craft, with a minimum of 1 day. (Is this true for all types of items? I believe so but have to double check...) So you can figure out how long it will take to get something made, though some crafters may not be able to start right away, as mentioned above. Once you've successfully made a deal with a particular crafter, you'll know how to reach him or her in the future (and not have to wait for the Starday market in order to enter into a contract with him or her).

Moruvai, it seems that youll definitely be able to get someone to cast continual flame on your dagger at the Starday market two days hence for 90 gp (the book price). Unless the spell has a long casting time, you can get it done on the spot.

==================================
Jala's:

Some visited this establishment during your previous visit to Verbobonc. It includes a large working forge with several smiths pounding away, plus a rough showroom with wrought-iron weapon racks, a couple of well-worn practice dummies and sawdust on the floor. A dwarf named Gimmian, clad in a leather apron and with a small snake coiled around his shoulder, tends to customers.

The following items are in stock:
[DM's note: roll for 8 minor magic weapons and 8 minor magic armors. Prices are close to book but shifted around a little semi-randomly.]

+1 Greataxe (2,320)
+1 Halfspear (2,301)
+1 Bastard Sword (2,335)
+2 Nunchaku (8,000)
+1 Spell Storing Longsword (8,500)
+1 Light Lance (2,306)
+2 Dwarven Waraxe (8,330)
+2 Handaxe (8,300)
+1 Large wooden shield of Fortification (light) (4,500)
+1 Large Steel Shield (1,170)
+1 Studded Leather (1,175)
+2 Full Plate (5,650)
+1 Buckler (1,165)
+1 Large Wood Shield (1,157)
+1 Scalemail (1,200)
+1 Bashing large steel shield (4,170)

Gimmian will take orders for custom enchanted weapons or armor too. Orders require a 20% deposit. Any weapon or armor type can be enchanted up to a total enchantment of +3. The following special abilities can be added:
(Armor)
Arrow Deflection (+2), Bashing (+1), Blinding (+1), Shadow (+1), Silent Moves (+1), Slick (+1)
(Weapons)
Distance (+1), Flaming (+1), Frost (+1), Lawful (+2), Mighty Cleaving (+1), Returning (+1), Shock (+1), Thundering (+2), Throwing (+1).

[DM's note: one 9th level cleric and one 9th level wizard work as enchanters in this shop. That's where the ability list comes from.]

Gimmian will buy enchanted armor and weapons at 50% of list price, or 65% of list price in trade value.

========================

Nib's Importers

This is an odd and eclectic little shop, full of hanging silks, rugs from all over Oerth half unrolled on the floor, brass and silver objects of Baklunish origin, carved scrimshaw and ivory from the northern barbarians, stone Olman totems with fierce animal faces, pearls and small gems. There is a small but well appointed shrine to Garl Glittergold in a prominent position. Two obsequious gnomes, who clam to be Nib's sons, wait on you.

The following minor items are for sale:
[DM's note: roll for 5 minor Wondrous and 4 minor rings]
Dust of Appearance (x2) (2,100 each)
Necklace of Fireballs (Type I - complete) (1,650)
Candle of Truth (2,500)
Horn of Fog (2,000)
Robe of Useful Items (4,000 gp, some items have been used. Remaining items: dagger, lantern x2, mirror, pole, rope, sack x2, 10 gems, silver coffer, wooden ladder, pair of war dogs, rowboat.)
Ring of Animal Friendship (9,500)
Ring of Mind Shielding (8,000)
Ring of Warmth (2,100)
Ring of Feather Fall (2,200)

Since they already have a ring of mind shielding in stock, they're uninterested in buying or trading for yours. They are generally interested in purchasing wondrous items and magic rings for 50-60% (depending on the item) of list value in cash, or +10% in trade. They offer 900 gp cash for the scepter, or 1,000 gp in trade.

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Ulmyrios

Ulmyrios' shop is tucked away down an alley in the East End. He turns out to be a grim, bearded man with red hair - probably a Suel. He wears scratched-looking leathers and smells - to put it delicately - a bit woodsy. He seems to be a man of few words and doesn't look like he enjoys haggling.

In stock:
[DM's note: roll for 4 minor ranged weapons, but note Ulmyrios's enchantment limits below.]
+1 Arrows, Bolts, and Bullets, plentiful supply - (2,350 gp for 50)
+2 Longbow (8,375)
+1 Longbow (2,375)
+1 Shock Shortbow (8,330)
+1 Shock Mighty Composite (+4 Str bonus) Longbow (8,800)

Ulmyrios will buy magic bows and ammo at 60% book value in cash. He doesn't give extra for trade. He can make magic bows to order, though he demands a full 50% cash deposit. He can enchant up to a +2 total enchantment, and can add any special ability that requires a spell on the adept list of level 3 or below (he's an 8th level adept). Notably this includes "shock" (requires lightning bolt).

=========================

Clotho's Clothes

It's quite easy to find Clotho's clothes in the Gnome Quarter - Clotho has a number of brightly painted shops overlooking the Velverdyva, near the southernmost bridge over to the East End. Clotho's Clothes is sandwiched between the pungent Clotho's Cheese House and Clotho's Taxidermy and Furrier. Unexpectedly, Clotho himself turns out to be a halfling, though he obviously fits into the local community quite well. He dresses much like a gnome and barks instructions to his gnomish assistants in their own language.

You can get all sorts of clothes, from the prosaic to the elegant, in this shop, which is surprisingly huge and includes two basement stories. It seems that the various outposts in Clotho's mercantile empire are connected underground. The prices are a bit on the expensive side. The following minor magical items are available:

[DM's note: I pretty much made this list up since there's no "Minor Magic Clothes" table.]

Boots of Elvenkind (2,500 gp)
Cloak of Charisma +2 (4,700 gp)
Cloak of Resistance +1 (3 in stock) (1,125 gp)
Glove of Storing (2 in stock) (2,800 gp)
Heward's Handy Haversack (2,500 gp)
Periapt of Proof against Poison (4,500 gp)
Vest of Escape (2,300 gp)

Clotho says that he'll look at magic clothing items you might have for sale, but he admits he doesn't pay top coin for them. He implies that he has some special sources for his goods and isn't too interested in extra suppliers. He also buys jewelry, but primarily of the sort that can be worn - necklaces, earrings, bracelets, etc. He examines the scepter and offers 700 gp, a bit doubtfully.

[DM's note: IMC there is a "gnome mafia" that runs most of the crime in Verbobonc. Clotho is in tight with them, and that's why his prices are a bit high (many customers are rich crime types who don't mind spending a little extra in order to show off) and he has these mysterious supply sources.]

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Here's a little additional material I worked up just under the wire to use in my session last night.

Additional store: Betham's Books.

[I created this largely as a contrast to the Enlightened Society/Silver Consortium, as a less straightlaced, more freethinking place of magical study. The PC wizard belongs to the E.S.; I had him overhear E.S. apprentices gossiping about how an apprentice got caught by her master sneaking to Betham's Books and punished for her transgression.

I didn't have time to write up the nice full description for this place, but here are my unpolished notes.]

This place is run by a sage named Betham, who has created a kind of magic coffeehouse where all sorts of arcane types can hang out, drink hot beverages and argue magic theory until the wee hours. Betham has a reference library of various books you can browse for a fee (lets say 1 day pass is 50 gp, you can also arrange longer term membership if you want).

Its obvious to Percy after a short time that there are a lot of magical treatises here that the E.S. would consider misguided or dangerous. Betham has a free thinking policy no ideas cannot be discussed, no one is turned away no matter how heretical they are.

In fact, your favorite evil gnome Nierethi is hanging out there and seems to be a regular (more on him in a moment).

You can buy scrolls here for list price... most spells up to 5th level will be available subject to my veto. Additionally Betham sells some individual spells in a mini-spellbook format, suitable for copying. It seems he has some scribes who churn these things out they copy the spells over and over without really understanding the content. Anyway, you can definitely get little mini-spellbooks of Fireball and Greater Magic Weapon if you wish. Cost is 200 gp each (Betham must have some cheap supply of spellbook writing materials!).


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[on the market: I started thinking that perhaps I was a little too generous to say you could sell stuff for 75% there... so I added the bit about the new, chaotic, ex-smuggler Viscount having lowered these taxes a lot. This may actually funnel into my backstory of an evil spymaster plotting to get Furyondi and Veluna fighting each other over Verbobonc. Don't ask me exactly how though as I have no idea!

(Generally speaking, the spymaster is supporting the new Viscount and trying to foster a lot of chaos in the city in order to get the law & order types more and more upset, culminating in some sort of civil disorder which gives the St. Cuthbert fanatics an excuse to take over. The details of this grand plot are yet to be figured out... and it would definitely come to fruition after RttToEE is finished.)]

Starday magic market: description

It's a fine, warm afternoon, and the streets are bustling as you head for the Trader's Market. As you pass through the markets archway, you can tell right away the market is different today. Instead of the calls of hawkers, laughter of children, and barking of dogs, there's a whole lot of murmuring punctuated by occasional loud chanting. The air smells of parchment, not fruit and flour. The crowd is a bit older; some appear distinguished and wealthy, while others are decidedly seedier, and one or two manage to be a bit of both.

A couple of cavalrymen and archers of the Viscount's Standing Army stand watch by the entrance archway.

A woman with a shaved head in a robe covered with embroidered eyes of Boccob argues good-naturedly with a middle-aged, potbellied gnome in a thick gray velvet shift. It's hard to imagine how he's not sweating like crazy in the heat. Perhaps he's distracted by his ridiculous hat, which features a pair of hands clutching a faux bag of gold. The bag of gold covers the top of the gnome's head both fore and aft; it looks like some weird hair.

A short human paladin of Rao leans against the wall behind the two priests looking extremely bored.

In addition to adventurers and mystical types, there are a surprising number of ordinary-looking farmers, hunters, peddlers and workers circulating through the market. Some are just gawking, but many seem to be seeking spellcasting-for-hire. In fact the majority of business being done is of this variety.

Many non-magical but magic related items are for sale. Alchemical equipment, material component-quality gems, extracts of exotic animals and plants, etc.

Bards wander through the crowd singing and creating minor illusions.

From bits of conversation here and there, you learn that last weeks magic market was really big because it fell on a festival week. Apparently many crafters and item brokers came from out of town in addition to the usual local suspects. The market is a bit quiet this week as many are still busy with commissions from last week, or counting cash from last weeks sales. Festival-period markets are usually this way.

Also, you hear that the new Viscount reduced the taxes and fees being charged at the market shortly after he came into office. This has increased the traffic in the market a lot, but is hurting the established stores. Many merchants are pushing to get the taxes raised again.

Crafters:
Quick 'n dirty, I used Jamis Buck's NPC generator to whip out a bunch of level 5+ casters. I generated gobs of them at a time, and scanned through looking for some with interesting item creation feats, picking some to cover most of those feats. (Of course you could just change the feats that got generated.)

That made it pretty simple when a player would ask "Who can make slippers of spider climb?" I just scan through looking for crafter NPCs with Craft Wondrous Item and spider climb. If only one fits the bill, and you want multiple sets of slippers, you'll have to wait for him to work on them one at time.

I won't post those generated NPCs here... but the mix I ended up with was something like 3 level 6 wizards, a level 6 cleric, a level 7 bard, an adept 8 / sorceror 3, a cleric 8 / expert 2, and one rogue 3 / ranger 4 who acts as agent for an anonymous druid 10...

============================================
sfarnon's Memoirs of the First
Selected Notes from a Book titled The Corruption of Prince Thrommel

Foreward Last week we captured that cur, Prince Thrommel of Furondy. Securing our defeat at Emridy Meadows was not enough for the fool. He and his fellow knights tried to follow us to the Temple. Luckily they charged directly into each trap we had set to cover our escape. At the last, Thrommel was alone with his destrier. Although he caused considerable damage to the Outer Fane, he finally succumbed to Mostrins drugs and the prayers of the faithful. The warhorse was given as a gift to the Fire Temple, may they eat well.

This book describes the tactics employed to corrupt and turn the foremost paragon of the day. May this serve as a lesson to those who seek to perform similar activities later. It will be interesting to see which is stronger, his body or his mind.
The First of Tharizdun Dated Thirty Years Ago

Day 1- Yrthuk began at the beginning, denying him all sustenance but a thin gruel, sprinkled over with poppy tincture and Tanbrosh extract. Thrommel of course refused to eat. Pain regimen: feet. Of course we put in place the necessary magics to obscure his location.

Day 3 Thrommel is thirsty. Sweat from the torture and the fevers robs his body of life, still he doesnt drink. Yrthuk is more than a match for such pitiful attempts to die, and begins an alternating regimen of fire and water. Unless Thrommel can will his very throat to close he will survive.

Day 7 Now for the conclusion of the ceremonial beginning of the breaking, the attacks of Earth and Air. Using the powers of the Dark Lord we transported a bound Thrommel to the top of one of the guard towers securing the perimeter, then encased him in a block of stone, except for the head. We then let the Spider Eater Riders perform any act of undecency they wished.

Day 21 We melted away the stone of his prison and returned to the Inner Fane. Yrthuk has had two weeks to prepare, and seems anxious to really begin. Regimen: The Rack.

Day 35 At this point we began working on the intellectual and emotional aspects. Some of the more junior Doom Dreamers take turns quizzing Thrommel and introducing him to the ways of the Master. The fool tries to debate them, feverish as he is. Some of his arguments are still strong. He has also begun taking the food we offer.

Day 60 With all of the efforts necessary to rebuild our forces, I have had little time for this project. Yrthuk and the chanters harry him day and night, but the only sign of success is that he has stopped speaking. His strength dismays me but makes the victory all the sweeter to the taste. In the interest of haste Ive directed Yrthuk to add liquid pain, liquid hate and good old blessed water to the regimen. Each drop of sustenance he drinks will be a tear from another victim or an ounce of hate. None can stand this.

Day 90 Blast this Champion! Luckily Yrthuk has plenty of spare time. Unfortunately we have had to turn to taking rebellious guards as inputs to the Machine of Pain. Yrthuk tells me Thrommel went wide eyed and gasped when told that the tortures of his fellow prisoners fueled his diabolic feasts. Yrthuk, against my wishes, had begun to let Thrommel sleep for two hours a day. He claims that this is necessary to avert Death.

Day 120 When will this end? Thankfully the Second has returned from abroad, and has some time to devote. It batters Thrommels mind with images of hatred and violence, as well as illusions of his former life, to make the pain all the more acute. Yrthuk continues his work half-heartedly. In recognition of this Ive ordered Yrthuk to be stretched on the rack for twenty minutes a day, plus five minutes for each day that passes. We shall see how the master enjoys the work of his apprentice Solyrd.

Day 150 Blast, Yrthuks rack-time is beginning to impact the quality of his effort on Thrommel. Yrthuks three hours of pain makes it difficult for Solyrd to keep enough intensity up on Thrommel. Ive instructed Yrthuk to deputize additional helpers, and he had the nerve to respond half-heartedly! I held him fast and ripped off his left ear as a warning. The Second has been making much progress. It believes we need to destroy the basis for Thrommels faith. We have sent agents to Furondy to investigate Thrommels family and past. Although wearying, the task is very intellectually challenging.

Day 210 DGran, the bridge captain, was eager for an opportunity to work with the great Yrthuk, and has helped keep up the intensity on both Thrommel and the torture master. Unfortunately some sort of competition has arisen between Solyrd and DGran, as they assume whoever succeeds will take Yrthuks place. The conclusion was Yrthuks death at the hands of Solyrd. This was easily fixed but leaves us all in a very uncomfortable situation. I would kill them all and start fresh, but its difficult to find an artist such as Yrthuk. Will they think me soft if I relent on Yrthuks torture? Over dinner the Third suggest employing another type of torture, one which wouldnt impact Yrthuks effectiveness. A brilliant suggestion!!! Ive since directed the Hags to ride Yrthuk and Solyrd every evening until the conclusion of the project.

Not surprisingly, Thrommel continues to be problematic. He can no longer bear bright lights, and no longer suffers pain at the touch of blessed water. These are very good signs, which I attribute to the Second, rather than that oafish trio. Some good news was the capture and sacrifice of two brothers of Prince Thrommel who had somehow discerned his location was in these hills. Upon seeing their mangled corpses Thrommel was considerably moved, and managed to upset the Iron Maiden, even tho his muscles have degenerated severely. There was then some rushing about by the oafs to prevent Thrommel from being killed by the weight of the Maiden, but he was fine. Subsequent interrogation of the spirits of the brothers indicated they were actually searching for the location of Thrommels ancestral sword, Fragarach, so his existence is still secret. Perhaps we should dispose of his gear to throw them further off the trail?

Day 240 Our spies in Furondy indicate that Thrommel and his brothers were the last of their line, so their estates will be savaged by the vultures of the Kingdom. Excellent news for our cause. Our council will certainly place a claim on those assets! Apparently Thrommel has (had?) a fianc named Joline DAmphere who may complicate the legal maneuvers. Damn the lawyers and advocates to hell! Our spies tell us she is in Verbobonc, orchestrating a search for her dead lovers corpse. Hah hah. Perhaps some scrying is appropriate?

Day 245 Although it was entertaining to watch the antics of the bereaved fool Joline, her guard is too strong, and this amusement is not great enough to warrant the risk. The Second has directed the spies to determine Thrommels greatest rival.

The physical torture is fairly mundane at this point. The long-term drug use does seem to be working. Thrommel is very susceptible to phantasms and certain suggestions.

Day 280 A bright and shining moment! The Second manifested an illusion of Jolines marriage to Prince Humperdink, Thrommels arch-rival. Once again he flew into a rage, denying the possibility of the illusion, but he was not so sure.

Year 2 Day 80 Clearly this is taking longer than expected. Plans to create the Orb of Silvery Death and the Fire Node have taken much of my time. After news of Jolines betrayal, Thrommel settled into a great depression and we began offering him a way out if he joined our cause. Thus far he has been non-responsive.

Year 3 Day 50 I ran across Thrommels sword a few days ago while re-arranging my chamber. The proud trophy still gleamed as if it had just fallen from Thrommels grip. Having tired of the things presence, we set out to destroy it, which turned out to be nigh upon impossible. For now Ill place it in the bottom of the Spike. I think its holy aura has been giving me headaches. Low-grade torture continues, DGran has been sent back to the bridge.

Year 5 Day 30 An archon was found recently sneaking about the volcano. The foolish celestial had been sent by an agent of Jolines. Hope springs eternal. Perhaps we need to ward the sword as well?

Year 5 Day 80 Finally we found a taker for the sword. The Great Dragon was interested, Tharizdun knows why. Perhaps it wants knights skulking around its home?

Year 5 Day 81 Amazing progress! Yrthuk was in my chamber only a few hours after the delegation carrying the sword had departed. Apparently Thrommels will dissolved, almost before Yrthuks very eyes! Miraculous!

Year 5 Day 82 Dark Lord be praised! Upon the utterance of an unholy word, Thrommel shrieked and cowered in fear. I threw open the iron maiden and offered my hand to the haggard living-corpse within, and he took it! Although now he is such a wretch, I dont know if hell be of any use to us. Once again the Third had a brilliant idea. We made a sacrifice to the Dark Lord in the Tabernacle of Utter Darkness in Thrommels name, and requested the gift of dark feeding. This allowed Thrommel to gain strength at the expense of others, and his thirst was tremendous! We had to raid the nearby orc clan to get enough blood to restore him to a reasonable fraction of his previous might.

Epilogue Reflections
Although the cost and distraction were great, in reflection they were well worth the result. Our one error was not finding and serially destroying those things that mattered most to Prince Thrommel from the beginning. Yrthuk is freed from the Hags at last and enjoys his sleep. Not surprisingly his former apprentice now occupies Thrommels old slot in the iron maiden.
Thus far Thrommel has been an excellent servant. I do feel that we cannot really trust him. Perhaps the breaking was not deep enough to scourge him even of the feelings of hate for ourselves? He is a powerful weapon, and one that bears watching so it does not turn on us.

The First of Tharizdun

Note: This thread is a great example of some pertinent tweaking. But it may not be for all parties. Will it suit yours? Check out Andorax' analyses and find out.

Thrommel's Divine Imix

I picked up Deities & Demigods last night and decided to take the rules for a spin by creating an alternate, divine Imix.

For your reference, I took a 24HD Elder Fire Elemental, upped the Int, Wis, and Cha to 18 and made it a Divine Rank of 0. The divine Imix would get even nastier with a Divine Rank of 1, but I decided to stick with the advice on p.8 and keep him to a Rank 0. The CR is basically arbitrary. Per p54 in DT&DG's, the XP for defeating a divine being is your level +4, and since you should be 13th level, I therefore made it a 17.

I also added in the Greatsword that Monte had armed him with, although I had to knock it down to Gargantuan-sized since Imix is only Huge now.

Anyway, here are the stats. Feel free to correct my math:

Imix
Prince of Evil Fire Elementals

Huge Elemental (Fire)
Divine Rank 0
Hit Dice: 24d8+96 (288 hp)
Initiative: +13
Speed: 100 ft.
AC: 42 (-2 size, +9 Dex, +21 natural, +4 deflection)
Attacks: Greatsword +26/+21/+16/+11 or Slam +25/+20/+15/+10 melee
Damage: Gargantuan +2 flaming greatsword 4d6+11 and 1d6 fire (19-20/x2); or Slam 2d8+9 and 2d8 fire
Face/Reach: 10 ft. by 10 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Burn
Special Qualities: Divine immunities, immortal, elemental, damage reduction 35/+4, SR 32, fire subtype
Saves: Fort +12, Ref +23, Will +12
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 29, Con 18, Int 18, Wis 18, Cha 18
Skills: Listen +31, Spot +31, Knowledge (the planes) +17, Intimidate +17, Sense Motive +17, Search +17, Hide +9
Feats: Dodge, Improved Initiative, Mobility, Spring Attack, Weapon Finesse(slam), Combat Reflexes
Climate/Terrain: Any land and underground
Organization: Unique
Challenge Rating: 17
Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Combat:
Divine Immunities: Imix is immune to transmutation. This includes polymorphing, petrification, or any other attack that alters his form. Imix is also immune to energy drain, ability drain, and ability damage. Further, Imix is not subject to mind-affecting effects, i.e., charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns or morale effects.
Immortal: Imix cannot die through natural causes. He does not age and does not need to eat, sleep, or breathe. He can be slain in magical or physical combat, however.
Elemental Immunities: Immune to poison, sleep, paralysis, and stunning. Not subject to critical hits.
Burn (Ex): Those hit by a Imix's slam attack must succeed at a Reflex save (DC: 26) or catch fire. The flame burns for 1d4 rounds. A burning creature can take a move- equivalent action to put out the flame. Creatures hitting Imix with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by a slam attack, and also catch fire unless they succeed at a Reflex save.
Fire Subtype (Ex): Fire immunity, double damage from cold except on a successful save.

Andorax' Divine Imix Analysis

Stylistically, it's quite cool. Functionally, the PCs are utterly doomed.

1) AC 42. This needs a minimum of +23 to hit on a non-twenty. I may be a bit foolish here, but I do seem to recall that 13th level characters are a bit hard-pressed to put a +23 to hit together. Maybe I'm biased, as my other gaming group (non-RttToEE) is 11th and 12th, and none of them are anywhere near.

2) DR 35/+4. There was a hue and cry about his former +3 DR, as there's (to my recollection) only one +3 weapon in the entire module. Yes, they can vacation in Verbobonc for a month and get custom-made +4 weaponry...while the world burns.

Plus, how many PCs will go straight +4 and skip all the nifty bonuses they *could* get?

I sincerely hope the party's cleric hasn't multiclassed, or taken a single PrC level that hasn't granted a caster level...because without a Cleric with caster level 12+, there's no way to produce a +4 weapon to hit Imix with.

3) SR 32. Ok...same problem as with DR and AC, only for the mages this time instead of the fighters. Let's do the math.

12th level PC. Caster Level Check. Rolls a 20 + 12 = 32.

14th level PC. Succeeds on an 18. Spell Penetration? On a 16.

Ye gods, Thrommel...I REALLY hope none of your spellcasters wasted levels taking non- spellcaster level multiclasses or PrCs. At the absolute outside, we're looking at MAYBE a 1 in 4 chance of hitting Imix with a spell.

4) Divine Immunities. Same problem as 3. If you COULD get a spell through, none of the instant-drop spells are going to work. By itself, I like this...but combined with the aforementioned problems, it makes Imix immortal indeed...and the PCs flambe waiting to happen.

5) Combat Prowess. I think this is original Imix, so forgive me for covering old ground...but also:

Spring Attack, Move 100', Reach 15', Combat Reflexes.

He's going to chop anything that even tries to touch him into pieces.

Thrommel's Semi-Divine Imix

Thanks for the analysis, everyone. It confirms some worries I had myself when I finally compiled all the numbers.

Any suggestions on how this could be altered to be more appropriate to 13th level PC's? I was thinking of cutting the divine enhancements down by 25%.

This would yield:

AC: 37 (-2 size, +9 Dex, +17 natural, +3 deflection)
DR: 25/+3
SR: 24

Speed would go down to 70ft (although that's still ungodly fast).

Everything else would basically stay as is. So he's sort of divine, but not quite rank 0, even.

I agree that his speed and the Spring Attack feat are nasty, but he DOESN'T have Power Attack or Improved Critical (greatsword) -- which btw, is not properly reflected in the stat block in the module. So the feat selection is a somewhat limiting factor on the damage since he won't crit as often and he can't convert his high BAB into mega amounts of damage enhancement.

Andorax' Final Analysis

Ok...so what we're look at is:

Original Imix:
AC 31 (Acting Defensively), hp 342, DR 15/+3, SR 20, vast damage potential.

Semi-Divine Imix:

AC 37 (Normally), hp 288, DR 25/+3, SR 24, not so nasty dishing it out.

Fully Divine Imix (Rank 0):

AC 42 (Normally), hp 288, DR 35/+4, SR 32, not so nasty dishing it out.


Versus:

Joe the Fighter (14th level). Str 24, +3 Greatsword, Focus and Spec. +24/+19/+14 to hit, Avg. 19 damage.

Fred the Wizard (14th level). Int 22. Up to 7th level spells, DC 16+Level (18+Level for *boom* spells)

Eric the Cleric (14th level). Wis 22. Up to 7th level spells, DC 16+Level.

Mat the Rogue (14th level). Dex 24. Great skills. Essentially useless due to Imix Crit Immunity, he's stabbing the Medusa regardless, and trying to stay alive.

Ok. Joe's going to hit AC 31 on a 7+/12+/17+, so he's got a good shot at hitting Normal Imix twice a round. He's going to hit AC 37 on a 13+/18+/23+, so he's pushing the odds to hit once a round. Against AC 42, he needs an 18+ with his best attack. He's going to damage NI (Normal Imix) and SI (Semi-Divine Imix) without a problem, but unless he's been powered up with a Greater Magic Weapon from Eric, he won't even scratch DI (Divine Imix), even with max damage.

Even with a +2 Greatsword, he's still going to do a little damage to NI, as 15/+3 is overcomeable with big damage swords.

Eric and Fred are going to need a 6+ to overcome NI's SR, a 10+ to get past SI's SR, and an 18+ to get over DI's SR. Needless to say, NI will nix a couple spells, SI's a 50/50 proposition, and they'll be dang lucky if they ever even touch DI with a spell.


At this point, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that SI is workable. Which you use is dependant on the tone of your campaign.

If you want Imix to be an ultra-powerful being that can waste a round just mocking the PCs, slash at several of them, take a round or three to down the fighter and move on, and be barely overcome by the last-gasp efforts of the latest survivors, then Semi- Divine Imix is your beastie. Longer, more "epic" battle, real feelings of futility and frustration.

If you want Imix to be a massave damage farm...to dish out incredible pain and leave the fighter reeling in the first round...to take blow after blow in return, each incrementally hurting him more, and to likely fall to a powerful and fortunate spell, or just the sum total of enough dumped attack power...then Normal Imix is what you're after. More brutal, more likely to hack PCs apart, more likely to take damage from that very first arrow or magic missile and get mad about it rather than shrugging it off.

Forget Divine Imix completely, unless you're running a Cthulu-esque campaign where the PCs either all die hideously under Imix's bootheel, or run away in terror, and then discover they can do NOTHING to prevent the end of the world at his hands...or, if you have a party of 7 power-muchkineers who've taken three side-treks, killed the repopulated CRM four times, fought EVERYTHING, and bought every semi-artifact Verbobonc has to offer and have over their normal GPV for their 15th level characters

Did you hear that...?

Some months ago, Andorax suggested that Fachish of the Air Temple cast silence on his summoned air elemental before sending it into melee with a spell caster.

Genius is often characterized by simplicity - and Andorax' suyggestion is one.

AFAIK, this is the first analysis of an entire RttToEE campaign, so...

Thrommel's Game: Post Mortem
or, "Do As I Say, Not As I Do"

Ok, I've been mulling this over since we wrapped up the module last month. I've got a lot of territory to cover, so I'm going to try to keep my points brief. And some of this is DM-ing 101 anyhow.

BACKGROUND or, "Why Your Mileage May Vary"
I'll start right off by telling you I didn't run the complete module as written:

1) I had two parties who BOTH wanted to play RttToEE, so I split the CRM in half. One party ran through the moathouse, the Ruined Temple, the Fire Temple, and the Air Temple and then got TPK'ed in the Outer Fane.

The other party assaulted the Northern Bridge Complex, took out the Water and Earth temples, fought the Main Gate and the took out the Recovered Temple and Fire Node.

This means I shortened the CRM and completely skipped Hommlet, Nulb, Rastor, the Inner Fane, and several parts of the Outer Fane.

2) My parties were about 4 levels higher than recommended when the module came out. Rather than starting over with new characters, I decided to amp up encounters to match their levels. I also decided to shoehorn the module into the existing campaign world rather than keep it in Greyhawk.

So as you can see, my game is best characterized as an adaptation of RttToEE.

MISTAKES WERE MADE or, "He's A Blackguard Vampire - He Has To Suck Once In A While!"
While the game was a lot of fun, there are some key points where I just plain did things wrong:

1) Amping up the encounters was a mistake. Not only did it put the party on the upward XP spiral, but it means I had to try to match Monte's skill in balancing an encounter. That's a tall order. In hindsight - even though these were our first 3E characters - I should have shelved the campaign and restarted at level 4 as the module was intended.

2) Every fight was a big fight. Part of the reason for this is when we set out to play everyone said they wanted smart monsters playing a 'no-holds-barred' game. And, some of the players were enchanted with the hack'n'slash. But the game became a bit too combat oriented and the storyline got lost.

3) Not enough plot hooks tied to the PC's. I didn't work hard enough to give every PC a motive for getting involved in the adventure. You don't have to him them as hard with the clue bat when you've got them pinned to a plot hook.

4) Too free in the use of splatbooks. I basically let people use whatever splatbook they wanted for spell selection and PrC's. And let's face it, the quality of the splatbooks varies wildly. This gave the party some abilities that could never have been anticipated back when the module was written.

LESSONS LEARNED or, "Next Time, I'll..."
Here's three pieces of advice I wish I had when I was prepping for the module:

1) Play the story, not the battles. Yes, there are some really cool fights - but not every fight should be a big fight. Let the PC's mow through the minor encounters and keep the story moving whenever possible. Make those cultists evil, menacing, and insane. Heighten the temple vs. temple conflicts. Be generous with the handouts and expand on them. Find ways to draw the party INTO role-playing situations. The players likely won't trust anyone in the CRM, so you have to make an effort to have the NPC's reach out to the party with role-playing opportunities.

You've got a rich, intricate story to work with: use it.

2) Don't amp up the encounters. Let the players win the small victories, they'll have their hands full in the big fights. If it's going too easy for them, use tactics to toughen up the encounters. Don't call in more troops, just play the monsters smarter and organize them better.

3) It's LONG -- plan for that. The module is so big, it's basically its own campaign. As such you have to plan for it like any other campaign. Tie the players into the action with strong character hooks. Have major NPC's frequently mentioned or make recurring appearances to give the game continuity. Figure out how you're going to handle magic item creation, shopping trips, and PrC's. (This gets to be a real challenge when your party is halfway through the CRM and is debating whether they should take two months off to sell loot and make magic items.)

IN CONCLUSION...
Despite some of the wrong turns I took, my players and I had a lot of fun with this module. Monte has given the DM some great material to work with, and the insights and twists given by the board community make it a truly excellent adventure.

I've learned a lot about both game design and DM-ing from my experience with RttToEE and via the wise advice found here.

Big thanks to Monte, and to everyone who's ever shared a story, insight, or opinion.

-Thrommel

Hajia:
I'd be very interested to know what other DM's have done to let their parties make shopping trips once they reach the CRM.

Even in Hommlet, there isn't a lot to buy. It seems like the module as it's presented will definitely require one or two runs to Verbobonc so a party can purchase some higher level artillery.

The CRM is so huge (and combat-oriented) that I can see where my PC's will be very resistant to giving destroyed areas time to reform, especially after they have to fight the same battle a few times. They probably won't want to make as many long trips to Verbobonc as they should, and I'm concerned that they may find themselves outgunned in the Fanes without being able to buy some specialized items. Rastor (as it is written) obviously won't provide much in the way of help at all.


Monte Cook:
I was just thinking about this. Seriously, I was wondering if it would be possible to make something like this cool:

A magical artifact, far too huge to move, that converted gold and/or items into other items of the user's choice. It could explain much of the CRM stuff, and it would effectively be the equivalent of a place to "shop."

Maybe in the dwarven temple (if you didn't want the other residents to have access) or maybe in one of the temples.

The core idea needs some work in order to disguise it's cheesiness--so it didn't scream "dungeon shop." Perhaps it also has some personal cost (blood, ability score damage, etc.) to use. There would need to be some limitations on its use (up to a certain price, only once per day, etc.)


Siobharek
I'd think Monte's pawn-shop-in-a-rock should be in the dwarven temple. Any temple with that artifact would have power beyond anything placed in the module so far. The artifact should therefore be impossible to get at (initially at least) for the temples and the DDs: In the temple or at a cave-in.

If it were placed in the dwarven temple, one limitation would be that it required a dwarven cleric of Moradin. How many campaigns have those? But what else: I think I'd put a limit of half the value. It would work like a sacrifice: You give, say, 14 masterwork warhammers and in return you get one +1 warhammer.

How not to make it cheesy? well, paying a blood-price might work. The temporary loss of 1 Con per 2000 gp worth of the received item should put the items you'd realistically be able to get in the ballpark of what you could reasonably buy in Verbobonc.

One thought: If you use the dwarven temple as a location, you could tie it in with the suggestion given earlier that the Rastor dwarves could move into the temple.

And be turned into vampires by Thrommel later on.

I really think this might work. I have a Stonelord character IMC, and I think I'll let him use the magic font in area 62 for that purpose.


Abelard - who, for the record is skeptic, but comes up with a nice twist
If you do want to go that route though, here's my idea. Have the "shop" be some kind of artisan construct, perhaps a golem, created by the dwarves. I think that could disguise the cheesy odor quite nicely. Instead of "sacrificing" for new items, the players have to provide it with raw materials in the form of other items. Also, I'd make the golem work with some of the regular crafting limits, particularly the time required to craft items - it might work two or three times as fast as a normal crafter, but they wouldn't get their goodies instantaneously, which would be a definite cheese factor. They could keep adventuring while the golem was laboring.

The players might have to sacrifice XP for it to use... I was reading somewhere recently about a spell or an item that functioned as an "XP bank", allowing someone to "donate" XP to be used for crafting done by somebody else. Perhaps in one of the Books of Eldrich Magic? I think so, but I'm not sure. Anyway, it's good idea you could apply here.

The golem artisan might be in the same area with the blade spirit. The PC's would have to defeat the blade spirit to access the golem. That would also explain why the CRM forces haven't used it, but once the PC's defeat the blade spirit, if they don't defend the artisan themselves, then the CRM forces would eventually find it and perhaps make use of it themselves.

The golem might require Tulian's Eye to function... I don't mean that the diamond would be destroyed - the PC's could take it back later if they wished. But it would tie up a big chunk of change for while they were using the golem, a good trade-off. And they could power the golem down if they were leaving for a while and didn't want CRM forces to use it - but then they'd potentially expose someone to the curse (if they have no dwarves).

Or, go ahead and have the golem grind Tulian's Eye to powder to get it to work. You want to use it, you have to pay a 10,000 gp membership fee! Like Costco!

Requiring a priest of Moradin to activate and/or control the artisan is probably a good idea, but I'd also let someone attempt to fool it with the Use Magic Device skill.

Scrying in General

Scrying will be an important part of the cat-and-mouse game between the PCs and the Outer Fane, once the Outer Fane takes notice of the party's actions (typically after the fall of two temples). For variant Scrying rules, see Andy Collins' rules for opposed Scrying checks. And most important, in Andorax' words: Don't neuter Scrying...USE it.

Andorax on Scrying on Hedrack - and the critters he'll summon if he detects the scrying

When someone tries to scry Hedrack (and they *should* have his name by now, it appears on enough different people's notes), have him patiently get up, turn to face the scryer, stare straight at the scrying point for a moment, turn towards his writing desk, and begin writing something (with his back intentionally towards the scrying point).

Stand up, turn, face the scrying sensor, and hold the scroll up to it:

Quote:

---

I know full well why you have come here. You face terrible destruction if you persist in what you do. Flee now, that you might live out your wretched lives.

---

Then begin casting Planar Ally to summon up something nasty in Tharizdun's name (ideally something Pseudonatural so it's not entirely recognizable what the heck it is). Then cast Locate Creature (Hedrack's range will cover just about the entire CRM from within the Outer Fane), figure out where the PCs are at right now, and send "the thing" after them.

Let the PCs see that their scrying is noted, is observed, and will have real and painful consequences.

A few Pseudonatural critters for Hedrack to summon up (either in regular battle or to send after annoying scryers). Remember to use their "true form" descriptions when they're summoned, as it might not let the PCs in on what they're up against.


CR 10: Pseudonatural Behir (MM 24). As written, but Acid and Electrical Resistance 20, DR 10/+3, SR 18, True Strike 1/day, and the Pseudonatural ability of Alternate Form (-1 morale penalty to hit it in it's "true" form).

Described (in "true" form) as a massive (30' long) quartz crystal that seems to, despite all reason, bend along it's length, with dozens of small spider-like legs along it's length. An electrical charge seems to crackle up and down it's length constantly (discharged when it "breathes"), and the "front" of it occasionally has a large horizontal crack. This will split open suddenly, grasping a PC and crushing it between the two massive crystal bits (a bite), and if it swallows the PC, it's translucent body allows the PC to be semi- visible as it's crushed and mangled amongst crystaline bits.

It's movement produces a high-pitched crystaline whine. Swallowed foes suffer Sonic rather than Acid damage.


CR 11: Pseudonatural 7-headed Learnean Hydra (MM 121). As written, but Acid and Electrical Resistance 15, DR 5/+2, SR 14, True Strike 1/day, and the Pseudonatural ability of Alternate Form (-1 morale penalty to hit it in it's "true" form). Also note that the Acid resistance will make it difficult to prevent head regrowth (Hedrack might want to cast Protection from Fire on it as well).

Described (in "true" form) as a malformed crab-like creature with several segmented legs and seven articulated crab-arms ending in snapping claws (a crab-arm takes the place of a Hydra head). Close inspection (the type you try to avoid) will reveal that there are small sucker-like mouths with needle-sharp teeth on the inside edges of the claws. Read over the Learnean regeneration ability carefully...this should have a rather large shock value on the PCs.


CR 12: Pseudonatural Clay Golem (MM 10 . As written, but Acid and Electrical Resistance 20, DR 10/+3 (as well as it's 20/+1), True Strike 1/day and the Pseudonatural ability of Alternate Form (-1 morale penalty to hit it in it's "true" form).

Described (in "true" form) as an amorphous but roughly humanoid mass of mud and tar, constantly flowing back upwards into it's own dripping mass. Armless, it has two heads on long tentacle-like necks, and these roughly humanoid heads have unnaturally huge mouths filled with blunt teeth that they bite (slam) with.

CR 13: Pseudonatural Retriever, Advanced (MM 41). As written, but HD 15d10, hps 82, Add +4 to hit with Claws and Eye Rays, +2 to all saves, and +2 to the DC of the Eye Rays. Also add SR 25, DR 10/+3, True Strike 1/day and the Pseudonatural ability of Alternate Form (-1 morale penalty to hit it in it's "true" form).

Described (in "true" form) as a central knob of flesh with four sucker-laden tentacles below it, four thorn-and-claw covered tentacles above it, and four eyestalk protrubrences extending out from the middle.

Please note that although the normal rules for Pseudonatural Creatures increase the Intelligence to a minimum of 3, Constructs (such as the last two listed here) do not posess Intelligence. Ignore this trait.

Please let me know if you use one of these nasty critters, and how the party fares.


Chefhermes and Thrommel on Scrying

Hermes: Hedrack has been scrying on the party, and the party mage is easily able to detect the scrying. Level 8 mage (11 ranks scry + 18 int = scry skill 15) can tell he is being scryed upon, decides to scry right back: listed DC for scrying on someone you know nothing about is 20: so a 5+ to see who is scrying on you? Does this sound right, or am I missing something? I couldn't find anywhere in the module that said the fanes had any kind of anti-scrying field. I ruled that they couldn't scry back upon Hedrack, as they really had no connection to him other than the knowledge that he was scrying them.

When Bethe, the assassin fought them and escaped, the mage swabbed up some of her blood to give him a bonus on scrying. I have ruled that the outer fane has proof against scrying +10, but for him to scry Bethe, DC 10 (have met the subject) +10 (body part - blood) -10 (shielding) = with skill 14 autosucess. Should I bump up the shielding or disallow it entirely?

I think the inner fane should be completely scryproof.

Thrommel: I think you made the right call in that they have no connection to him. The Intelligence/scry check only reveals that they are being scried, not who is doing it.

Now, if they can figure out who Hedrack is, they could try scrying him. And probably will: the Outer Fane has no defense against scrying.

The Inner Fane, on the other hand, has SR 30 when it comes to scrying (see the description of the Black Spike on p128 ).

Shidara on sensor appearance

What would you suggest for the appearance of the scrying sensor? A ghostly pale flaming eye? A purplish tentacled rat-thing? Would it be just floating about? Or could the sensor be "through" the eyes of an unwitting but morally sympathetic ally of the cult, like a particularly purplish rat in the street, staring at the group or a small swarm if insects that seems to unerringly follow the players? (I kinda like this method, anything in the rules say this is illegal or impossible?)

I like the idea of having the players who detect the scry attempt notice a purplish rat standing boldly on the top of a merchant's cart, staring directly at them. It completely ignores a mosquito that lands on it and drinks deeply - its eyes never waver from your group. . . nice creepy vibe there . . .