Oathsworn Issues

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Azgulor	Oathsworn Issues	Lead	[-]
Posts: 5 (09/16/09 08:54:52) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Ok, although I've had AE for a while now, I hadn't had a chance to use it in play. I'm currently planning on inserting some AE classes into the Pathfinder campaign I'm running for my son, which will be a test-run of sorts for an eventual AE campaign with my regular gaming group. While I love the concept of the Oathsworn, I'm not sure about the mechanics. I know Monte is fond of high-magic and the Diamond Throne is a high-fantasy setting. However, the Oathsworns "Eschew" abilities just seem too over the top. I can run full speed all day? I don't need to eat/sleep/breathe! I also hate the binary nature (I need food / I don't need food - ever). And they're not even listed as Supernatural abilities! Wahoo-fator aside, I have serious reservations about how it would work in play. If the rest of the party has to eat and sleep, either the Oathsworn characters twidle their thumbs or they never stop. I encountered a similar scenario when I ran a Rolemaster campaign where elf charaters only needed 2 hours of sleep. They tried to use as much of the remaining 22 hours as possible, pretty much non-stop. I'm considering an "eschew for 1 day/oathsworn level" modification. Sadly, I'm also considering dropping the Oathsworn and just going with the Monk. Any first-hand experiences? Any suggestions. I like high-fantasy as much as the next person (I prefer swords-n-sorcery, though ), but c'mon!
Tiburon Silverflame		#1	[-]
Posts: 8355 (09/16/09 09:53:24) Enigma Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The Oathsworn are a game implementation of the Bloodguard from the Thomas Covenant novels. It is all about the power that an oath has. And I think you're misreading some of them...they're only true while the oathsworn has sworn an oath. And, note, is then subject to the penalties involved if the oath is broken. No, the 1 day/level stuff really does not work...not for a lot of oaths. There's an example in the AE book, where 2 oathsworn guard an entrance. The oath is, no one goes in...period. What's inside? Think Brendan Fraser... Or a nastier form of a Jumanji board. Their oath is perpetual. It's all about dedication. How does this play out? If the oathsworn doesn't need sleep, he becomes the perfect person to stand watches all night. He can run all day...who needs a horse? In many ways, it's a great facilitator. And to be honest, I don't consider this 'high' magic. It's deep magic...earth-related magic. It's subtle in its strength; you never even know it's going on, until you look and go, hey wait, it's that same guy standing at the entrance, that I saw 34 years ago!
varianor		#2	[-]
Posts: 12216 (09/16/09 10:00:11) Moderator Supreme Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I have played an oathsworn in a farily combat and RP-heavy game set in Ptolus using AE rules. No worries with those rules at all. It hardly ever came up. The few times it did, it was cool to not have to worry. I stuck with the party when appropriate. The real stall on an AE party is the magister or other spellcaster running out of spells anyway. The group always stops at that point. That said, the oathsworn do seem to run shy of being able to keep up due to not using a lot of tools. I wound up getting some special enchantments on my PC and I still thought he was hampered sometimes by not having a christmas tree worth of magic items. Lands of the Jade Oath. Coming soon from Rite Publishing. Beware the Bakemono.
Azgulor		#3	[-]
Posts: 8 (09/16/09 11:09:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tiburon Silverflame wrote: The Oathsworn are a game implementation of the Bloodguard from the Thomas Covenant novels. It is all about the power that an oath has. And I think you're misreading some of them...they're only true while the oathsworn has sworn an oath. And, note, is then subject to the penalties involved if the oath is broken. No, the 1 day/level stuff really does not work...not for a lot of oaths. There's an example in the AE book, where 2 oathsworn guard an entrance. The oath is, no one goes in...period. What's inside? Think Brendan Fraser... Or a nastier form of a Jumanji board. Their oath is perpetual. It's all about dedication. How does this play out? If the oathsworn doesn't need sleep, he becomes the perfect person to stand watches all night. He can run all day...who needs a horse? In many ways, it's a great facilitator. And to be honest, I don't consider this 'high' magic. It's deep magic...earth-related magic. It's subtle in its strength; you never even know it's going on, until you look and go, hey wait, it's that same guy standing at the entrance, that I saw 34 years ago! Thanks for the feedback. My 1 day/level wasn't tied to the oath, just the length of time that particular power could be used. I guess in my head I could see it as a focusing of will towards the oath rather than everything always being "on". And while I get the example from the book that you cite, I guess the problem I have with it is that it sounds really cool...for a NPC. Perhaps that's really what's bugging me about the powers - a player will want to use them but doing so may often place them at odds with the rest of the party. I mean if the party is pursuing the BBEG and are exhausted but the Oathsworn can continue, and perhaps is even incentivized to do so because of his Oath (e.g. Kill the BBEG), does the Oathsworn continue on because he can or does he "play nice" with the party? I dunno, I'm going to have to think about this some more. As I said, I really like the concept, but perhaps it makes for a better NPC class....
Azgulor		#4	[-]
Posts: 9 (09/16/09 11:11:02) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	varianor wrote: I have played an oathsworn in a farily combat and RP-heavy game set in Ptolus using AE rules. No worries with those rules at all. It hardly ever came up. The few times it did, it was cool to not have to worry. I stuck with the party when appropriate. The real stall on an AE party is the magister or other spellcaster running out of spells anyway. The group always stops at that point. That said, the oathsworn do seem to run shy of being able to keep up due to not using a lot of tools. I wound up getting some special enchantments on my PC and I still thought he was hampered sometimes by not having a christmas tree worth of magic items. Good to hear it wasn't automatically an issue. The X-mas tree effect would likely be less of an issue as I tend to be stingy on magic items anyway, but it's good to know that I should keep an eye out for it.
Tiburon Silverflame		#5	[-]
Posts: 8356 (09/16/09 14:24:30) Enigma Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The oathsworn's not an idiot. The oath, remember, isn't "kill the BBEG by midnight tomorrow"...well, OK, it can be, but the time limitation is often not present, OR it's phrased differently: "prevent the Order of Mekelan from completing the Ritual of Descending Darkness." BUT, in that case, it's odds on that the party goal and the oath, are essentially one and the same...which is the easiest way to avoid problems.
Sslissth		#6	[-]
Posts: 661 (09/17/09 14:48:16) Shadowy Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Remember that oathsworn pretty much suck at low levels. As someone who I can't recall cleverly put it: "They don't get the Eschew Suckage ability until mid-level." Many of the powers are situational. Sure, an oathsworn could run all day, but why would he want to? He'd need a reason, and as the DM you're the one who provides that reason. I would add a modified feat as well: rather like Hands as Weapons, but for armor. Because oathsworn don't get a lot of armor unless you let them have really really high stats, a Body as Armor feat would help reduce their frequent death. Make it so it doesn't work with actual armor, and limit it to a percentage of BAB so that squishies--I mean, greenbonds and magisters--don't become unhittable. If you're gonna run an oathsworn, work closely with the character on the oath. It is highly highly likely this oath will be central to the plot of your story and you may even end up writing your whole campaign around it. The oath isn't a strong restriction, it's almost entirely flavourful. And yet in its own way it's too restrictive--you have to renew every year and that makes some oaths difficult. If you want, you can change this flavour to something more suitable--perhaps the character is strengthened by his ancestors instead of his oath, and he must fulfill the ancestor's desires. If that's too champion-esque, you can just name it 'monk' or 'guru' or 'yogi' and have the characters' powers be as a result of strong discipline and unquenchable willpower. In the desert there is no mercy...but I am not in the desert now.
Tiburon Silverflame		#7	[-]
Posts: 8365 (09/18/09 13:03:32) Enigma Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If you're gonna run an oathsworn, work closely with the character on the oath. It is highly highly likely this oath will be central to the plot of your story and you may even end up writing your whole campaign around it. While a valid point, it's likely putting the cart before the horse. Oaths can be to the party..."I swear to see the Bloodied Monkeys [the party's name for itself] arrive safely at the Port of Silverspray within the next month." Gee, the party's going to Silverspray anyway..... In this case, the oath gets linked to the plot.
Sslissth		#8	[-]
Posts: 662 (09/18/09 14:35:59) Shadowy Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Y'know, I was positive it said something somewhere about trivial oaths, but it doesn't. You could swear to leave your armpits unshaven every day and still technically be an oathsworn. Which isn't something I'd allow, personally, the oath seems pretty significant to me, but RAW such is the case. In the desert there is no mercy...but I am not in the desert now.
Tiburon Silverflame		#9	[-]
Posts: 8367 (09/20/09 18:54:44) Enigma Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	RAW doesn't want to get overly involved in defining proper oaths; that's a DM's prerogative. How important is important enough? A clear implication, tho, of RAW is that the oathsworn can't be the object of his oath. I'd reject the oath you mention out of hand. I prefer having periods where an oathsworn doesn't need an oath; when he completes one oath, he should have some reasonable time frame within which to formulate a new one, without losing any benefits. (Of course, if he fails, then he loses his abilities for a while, so this time frame's built-in there.) It isn't RAW, but it respects the notion that the oath is a very meaningful thing, and one does not enter into a new one lightly.

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