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davetkwhite	You don't know what you got 'till it's gone...	Lead	[-]
Posts: 77 (07/08/09 18:26:56) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Yugh. I'm redoing one of my character sheets for an upcoming session and it's not pretty. My beloved monk/rogue managed to get bashed down in one round by a bugbear barbarian we'd sorely underestimated, and then his (almost fully loaded) necklace of fireballs detonated right above her. To add insult to injury pretty much all of her equipment failed its saving throws. Her equipment list was pruned thusly: masterwork silver short sword (400 gp) masterwork cold iron short sword (610 gp) silk rope (100') (20 gp) masterwork thieves' tools (100 gp) smokestick (20 gp) 3 flasks of acid (30 gp) 2 flasks of alchemist's fire (40 gp) 2 flasks of holy water (50 gp) tanglefoot bag (50 gp) short sword +1 (2310 gp) potion of hide from undead (50 gp) potion of cure moderate wounds (300 gp) potion of invisibility (300 gp) potion of resist energy (acid) 20 (700 gp) potion of gaseous form (750 gp) potion of remove disease (750 gp) ring of protection +1 (2000 gp) immovable rod (5000 gp) scroll of dimension door (700 gp) lightning gauntlets (1100 gp) Heward's handy haversack (2000 gp) bead of force (3000 gp) periapt of wisdom +2 (4000 gp) slippers of spider climbing (4800 gp) cloak of chameleon power (12700 gp) bracers of armor +3 (16000 gp) Man, that's a lot of equipment to lose. Especially when most of the lost items either improved a wide variety of abilities or enabled totally new abilities, while most of the stuff that's left just enhances abilities that don't really need much in the way of enhancing. And to be honest the only reason I have the ring and bracers left is that I accidentally overlooked them when we were rolling the saving throws, and when I realized my mistake the DM took pity on me. So yeah, this next session is gonna be fun. Last Edited By: davetkwhite 07/08/09 18:40:07. Edited 1 time.
Cthon		#1	[-]
Posts: 7072 (07/09/09 02:00:46) No need for labels, right? Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Why did the necklace detonate? From what I know, it only does that when the wearer fails a saving throw against a magical fire attack. The necklace's saving throw bonus is +7, but item saves use their own bonus, or the wearer, whichever is better. A monk/rogue probably had a good Reflex save: judging from your items, your character was probably level 8 or so. Wasn't her Reflex save something like +10? Fireballs from the necklace are only DC 14 to save against. _______________________ bored with changing signatures
madfox		#2	[-]
Posts: 6977 (07/09/09 04:44:49) That's a lot of posts. Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The character was down, potentially dead, so I can see how the DM decided to use the items' save modifier and not of the monk. I am more curious how so many items get destroyed, partially because of the haversack's destruction, but by RAW only 1 item gets destroyed. Or was your character dead and did the DM treat every single item as an individual object? At least you are a monk, it could have been worse
davetkwhite		#3	[-]
Posts: 78 (07/09/09 05:43:55) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The necklace was sort of intentionally targeted. We knew he had it, so when the wizard saw the monk/rogue go down in the first round of combat, basically pelted the barbarian with magic fire spells until he failed a save by the necessary amount to make it go boom. Unfortunately, when it did go boom he was standing right on top of my corpse. The character was definitely 100% dead - she went from about 40hp to -12 in the space of a full attack. So we were using the object's saving throw (and only making one saving throw, even though something like five beads on the necklace went off). And yeah, everything that wasn't wearable was inside the haversack which accounts for a lot of the loss. Last Edited By: davetkwhite 07/09/09 05:49:22. Edited 1 times.
Tiburon Silverflame		#4	[-]
Posts: 8212 (07/09/09 07:34:24) Enigma Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	To me, this points out that the item saves forced by the necklace's detonation, were excessive, suggesting the rule is a poor rule. Note that I'm not blaming the DM that much; he played the rule. I will say that it would be a good time for rule 0, but that's as far as I'll go. I mean, isn't this enough? --Your character died, so you have the non-trivial cost of having him raised, PLUS the death penalty. --You already lost a very expensive item in the necklace. --From a character perspective, you had the humbling experience of being one-rounded. So I might've made a few checks, but I wouldn't have taken out anywhere near this much stuff, personally. Still, if you're OK with it, that's all that matters, and the DM can, of course, give some extra treasure out to make up for the losses.
madfox		#5	[-]
Posts: 6978 (07/09/09 07:57:15) That's a lot of posts. Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Depends... as a DM you can make sure the PC is compensated quickly. As a player, I probably would feel a bit irritated at first, but depending on how quick my friends help me out and how long the character is subpar, it might actually be a fun challenge. So the question becomes: was the OP being sarcastic when he said the next session was going to be fun, or honest
davetkwhite		#6	[-]
Posts: 79 (07/09/09 08:08:56) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	A bit of both, actually. I will have to find a new gimmick for the character, though, since the running gag has been that she usually had some mundane piece of equipment in the haversack that could would ruin the DM's day. There's nothing like sending a green dragon crashing to the ground with a 50gp tanglefoot bag, crushing a centaur's back with a Quaal's feather token (anchor) or ruining an enemy spellcaster's day with a potion of fly and a handful of smokesticks. I honestly have no problem with the ruling - this has been a very deadly game and at least I was raisable, though it has been frustrating that almost all of our treasure seems to be fenced to pay for raise dead spells. That doesn't mean I can't have a good grouse about it, though. I'll miss those slippers. Do you know how much loot I had to hide from the party to afford those?
amerigoV		#7	[-]
Posts: 282 (07/09/09 13:25:58) Spooky Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Ditch the PC and run a Gnome Commoner. That will teach the DM to destroy all your stuff.
agfang		#8	[-]
Posts: 937 (09/26/09 06:23:02) Just showed up Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	From what you've said, you seem like a very resourceful player. I think you will find a way to turn this into a positive. In fact, your DM may have done this just to see where you go with what you have.
Dogbert		#9	[-]
Posts: 88 (09/27/09 15:47:20) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	agfang wrote: From what you've said, you seem like a very resourceful player. I think you will find a way to turn this into a positive. In fact, your DM may have done this just to see where you go with what you have. In fact, when a player is too resourceful the GM rises up to the challenge now and then to keep things interesting. A GM must be careful, however, of neither doing this too often nor making things too harsh, as that would equal punishing the player for playing it smart. I read not too long ago in other forums of a soreceress which had this same problem, except that she didn't lose half of her items, she lost everything.... guess you might as well count your blessings. Good luck. "It's the good thing of being a pessimist: You only get good surprises" --Strahd, "I, Strahd: Memoirs of a Vampire"
Tiburon Silverflame		#10	[-]
Posts: 8381 (09/28/09 09:10:31) Enigma Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well, one reason why I like monks, sorcerers, and psions is, even if you take away ALL their gear, they're not 100% hosed. The monk's hurting the most of the 3, in that his AC, attack bonus, and damage are suffering, especially at higher levels where those bracers, AoMFs, and ability score boosters get removed, but he has a decent attack and AC, and even saves. A fighter's totally SOL. Sorcerers and psions tend to avoid material components, so while their AC and secondary saves are hurting, they can hurt back.
Dogbert		#11	[-]
Posts: 89 (10/23/09 17:13:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Don't forget the wizard, a wizard that loses his spellbook is effectively -destroyed-, let alone at higher levels, then he'd be better off dead. Morale: Always have backup spellbooks somewhere, the more backups the better. "It's the good thing of being a pessimist: You only get good surprises" --Strahd, "I, Strahd: Memoirs of a Vampire"
Tiburon Silverflame		#12	[-]
Posts: 8423 (10/26/09 08:44:47) Enigma Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Dogbert: does your DM charge you the time and materials required to make those backups? Cuz if he does, the situation's even worse than you describe. Take a hypothetical 12th level wizard, with (skipping cantrips) 9/8/7/6/5/3 spells in his book. Yes, this is assuming the wizard finds/buys some spells as he goes along...but if he doesn't, he's seriously crippled by comparison to the sorcerer. Rules say 24 hours per spell, 100 gp x spell level (== # of pages). Duplication's easier, and gives 1/2 time and 1/2 materials cost. Well, right off we have a lovely ambiguity. How many days of work is actually required? In most similar cases in the rules, it's 8 working hours per work day. So does that mean 24 hours == 3 working days? We have 38 spells, so it's either 19 days, or 57 days...to make 1 duplicate. As for cost: multiply number known * spell level, for each level, add em all up, we have 113 spell levels, so it's 5650 (and 2 spellbooks, since 1 book only holds 100 levels). And that's per backup, at a moderate level. Let's try a 19th level, with, say: 12/9/8/7/7/6/6/5/4 spells known. (There are a lot of very useful 1st level spells, so that's why I've added so many.) That's 64 spells known, total, and 271 (!) total levels. So each set now costs over 13,000. Hey, that's the cost of a pretty decent magical item. And, we're talking either 34 days, or 102 days, to do it. Again: per set. 102 days...I can make +10 armor or a +7 weapon in that time frame, from scratch. And even 34 is a long time.

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