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Elhan the Sorcerer |
Possible alteration to the witch |
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I've long liked the Warlock class from the Complete Arcane supplement. However, I don't want to transplant it into AE rules. Rather, I was thinking to
tweak the witch for my own setting (altering the conception of the class somewhat), by giving her something like an eldritch bolt (what kind would depend on
her specialty.) My idea was for the witch to have the ability to "shut down" progressively higher levels of spellcasting in order to augment the bolt
(so she could sacrifice all levels to yield a highly potent, devastating bolt of energy usable at-will each round), sacrificing manipulation of her environs
for more raw damage output, making her somewhat of a glass canon with some limited defensive talents. Has anything like this been done, and are there any
problems such an idea could face?
A writer is a painter whose medium is language, and an artist a bard who weaves his tales through image
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varianor |
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The witch only gets 7 levels of simple spells to start with, so I don't think restricting what they get will be all that attractive. Their greatest
attraction is the flavor of their witchery abilities. They are not as effective a caster as a primary caster (magister) nor as focused on becoming a good
combatant via magic (mageblade). I would rewrite a witchery ability to allow for the eldritch bolt type blast and leave it at that. Call it witchbolt.
(While you're at it, it couldn't hurt to add +1 to the witchblade's damage for every witchery ability that they gain.)
Lands of the Jade Oath. Coming soon from Rite Publishing. Beware the Bakemono. |
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Elhan the Sorcerer |
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Hmm I was concerned that giving them a bolt with damage scaling similar to the warlock's with no disadvantages could imbalance the game. I'll give the
warlock a closer look to see how it could be balanced.
A writer is a painter whose medium is language, and an artist a bard who weaves his tales through image
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Finniss |
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How's the warlocks bolt work? I've been pretty much all AU/AE since it came out so I missed a lot of later class stuff.
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Siobharek |
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It's pretty much an at will-touch attack bolt with scaling d6 damage. You then take abilities to modify your bolt.
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Tiburon Silverflame |
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I'd also dislike that approach, as it forces me to sacrifice considerable flexibility to gain power in one narrow area. That's very much against the
spirit of AE.
There's nothing wrong, IMO, with designing a witch with an at-will ranged attack...but that doesn't mean there aren't issues with some of the suggestions here. 1. If the damage scales with level, beware the application of the Witchery Lord/Witchery Mastery damage enhancers. A built-in, ranged attack inherently becomes highly attractive to be enhanced in this way. 2. A touch attack is probably a bad idea because witches have cleric BAB. One option might be to allow it to be fast...that is, usable as a basic attack, at will. The damage can scale, but slowly...say, 1d6 base, +1 for every 2 class levels. I'd prefer it wasn't a touch attack, as that has no defense, and giving a Reflex save (for half/none) would mean that it's mostly useless against a sizable swath of critters. One thing that suggests is: make it a force attack. Another is, it's a quasi-conjuration, something like consolidated ectoplasm, so it hits as a physical weapon, and DR applies. This 'witch' may look a lot like the Mage Bow...the ranged version of the Mage Blade. |
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Tiburon Silverflame |
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Hmm...come to think about it, to fully develop the witch concept...
Given a start of a force attack which'll be at-will, and given the emotional aspect that's central to witch concepts...I'm thinking of tearing, ripping, rending, unraveling forces. Blade: given that this is usually the at-will, the ranged attack goes here. I'd probably also allow it to be used as a melee weapon, using the same stats. Fire: Talons of Fire...half force, half fire. In addition to the damage, there's a pain side effect. To perform strenuous physical actions (that is, move, or make a weapon-based attack), make a Will save, with some kind of penalty. Failure says, the pain of trying that was too great, and you lose that action. For mental actions (casting), it forces a Concentration check with some kind of modifier. In both cases, the rolls get easier over time...the pain lessens somewhat, or you just learn to start ignoring it, or whatever. Usable 1/day. Song: A targeted form of Unraveling. Can be used against an ongoing spell or effect (such as a summoned critter, or a freestanding effect like wall of sound), or against a single target. The witch picks the defense on the target that is to be unraveled. Usable 1/day. Spirit: This is usable when the witch makes a Will save. It's a two-stage power. a) Attacker tries something that forces a Will save by the witch. Witch succeeds at the save. b) Witch may invoke this power as an immediate reaction. In doing so, the witch's mind 'locks' onto the the attacker's mind. c) As a standard action on the witch's next turn, he can use the second part of this power, to flay the (original) attacker's mind, doing 1d6 damage to the attacker's casting stat. Attacker must also make a Will save or be Stunned for 1 round. This attack may only be used on the witch's next turn. Usable 1/day per Wis modifier. Storm: Something similar to Glitterdust, this one: 1. Make invisible critters visible (like Glitterdust) for 1d4 rounds 2. Makes incorporeal critters solid enough to lose their miss chance, for 1d4 rounds. 3. Creates a vague visual marker to indicate the presence of someone (or something) in the ethereal plane, watching. Area of effect is a 40' burst, centered on the witch. Word: Word of Rending...like Word of Repair, but doing damage instead of repairing it. |
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Elhan the Sorcerer |
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Would the above be sort of like a "force" or "unravelling" witch then? My idea was to grant the power across all witchery specialisations,
modifying it according to the specialisation. The concept is still floating around so I haven't undertaken any serious study of either the witch or the
warlock yet (other than experience from playing the latter), more so the thread was posted to see if this has been done yet. My idea was to make the bolt an
emanation from the witch's soul rather than communication with quasi-sentient aspects of the world (which is how and why witches can use spellcasting in my
setting, so basically like you said it is emotion-based and force suits it well) and to suppress some of their spellcasting to give a rather hefty damaging
ability. Suppressing it may not be a good idea, so I am all ears to suggestions on implementing such a mechanic. I liked the idea of making it a force attack,
a bit like the Arcanist's force missiles in IH, but stronger.
A writer is a painter whose medium is language, and an artist a bard who weaves his tales through image
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Tiburon Silverflame |
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My idea was to make the bolt an emanation from the witch's soul rather than communication with quasi-sentient aspects of the world (which is how and why witches can use spellcasting in my setting, so basically like you said it is emotion-based and force suits it well)That's all flavor. What you're talking about, is a process that is irrelevant in D&D...gathering the energy and creating the bolt. And, a phrase like "an emanation from the witch's soul" is so totally ambiguous as to be meaningless anyway. No offense, but it sounds like a line from a bad romance novel. Would the above be sort of like a "force" or "unravelling" witch then?Force is too nebulous a concept for me; I prefer witches that are more thematic. The effects are more force-related than most, but the theme is rip/claw/unravel. and to suppress some of their spellcasting to give a rather hefty damaging ability.I don't think any of us is particularly happy with this idea, or at least, not when it's being planned as a 'witch variant.' I think, from a class perspective, you need to start from a clean slate, and start defining what you want: 1. An at-will force attack. 2. Damage augmentation. 3. ??? This sounds nothing like a witch right now.... |
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Elhan the Sorcerer |
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Yeah, the idea is pretty much to form a glass canon of a class, somewhat similar to the sorceress from Warhammer, that engages in riskier manipulation of magic
than either the magister or runethane or the greenbond, precisely because she does not manipulate the runic structure underlying the world but rather energy
residues left by the spells of magisters and runethanes, so her sorcery is more a matter of will and less of understanding what she is manipulating; when she
does use spells it is by communing with a particular aspect of the world, e.g. fire. As for the emanation bit, it is just that, an emanation of her will,
sentience, whatever concentrated energies that form her soul and are the catalyst for magic in the setting - unravelling is a good way to view it because it is
just what she is doing when availing herself of the bolts. I'll work it out more in the future, I am just trying to give the direction I want for such a
class. Perhaps a hybrid of the warlock and the witch. I like the bolt from the warlock class (but not so much the curses &c.) and witchery/manifestations
from the witch class. Something to work on over the summer.
A writer is a painter whose medium is language, and an artist a bard who weaves his tales through image
Last Edited By: Elhan the Sorcerer
06/30/09 16:38:57.
Edited 1 times.
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Ashanderai |
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If you want to apply this glass canon concept to AE I suggest going the PrC route with it. It would make better sense from a game mechanics point of view and
you can write in whatever flavor you like for the PrC without altering anything else in AE. If you don't like the PrC idea, then you could go with
replacement levels with a flavor different from the base class just like Mike Mearls did for the giant mage blades in Transcendence.
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Elhan the Sorcerer |
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I was originally contemplating a PrC with 10 levels as the particular conception of the witch I had in mind is a devotee to one of the setting's religions
(two if a cult devoted to a Galchutt god is factored in), so it might work better in fact to do it in this fashion. Perhaps for the class as a whole I'll
just implement the ranged attack suggested, whereas for the PrC the focus will be far more on the bolt of energy. Replacement levels are also a good
suggestion, thanks for reminding me of them.
A writer is a painter whose medium is language, and an artist a bard who weaves his tales through image
Last Edited By: Elhan the Sorcerer
06/30/09 17:21:52.
Edited 1 times.
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