You can read the details here:
http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=12054
Monte, I'm curious what your reaction is and if you were aware of special treatment at the time.
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MadnessOfSet |
Did Malhavoc receive special treatment from Ennies? |
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Zachary, one of the Ennies judges, has stated that a few companies (bigger ones and/or favorites among Ennies staff) were able to bend the submission rules.
Among these, he cites that Eperimental Might II would not have been eligible if the submission cutoff date was not changed just for its benefit. Zachary is not
known for drama or wild behavior so I'm inclined to believe him.
You can read the details here: http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=12054 Monte, I'm curious what your reaction is and if you were aware of special treatment at the time. |
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Qwilion |
Bogus | ||
"I was especially angered and extremely disappointed when it was suggested that we retroactively change the submission cutoff dates for Book of Experimental Might 2 so that it would go undiscovered that it was accidentally ineligible for the awards period in question."He states that he is angry that the ennies board did not own up to its mistake, The Book should not have been eligible, they failed to catch this untill after it had won, yet rather than say "Sorry, we were wrong, but we are not penalizing Malhavoc Press for our mistake" it was "suggested" that they retroactivly change the submission cuttoff dates, which in my opinion is rank cowardice on the part of who ever suggested it in the first place, and kudos for Zachary for calling it such. Also I think your question to Monte about special treatement is bogus (I would use a much stronger word that this). Since the Ennies were not even aware of it being ineligible untill after it won. . The product Won based on votes, not what day its submitted, you don't penalize other people for your mistakes.
Steve "Qwilion" Russell
Rite Publishing "A hundred thousand lemmings can't be wrong." Preorder Mythical Monstrosities and support the Lands of the Jade Oath The Ollamh Lorekeeper an Arcana Evolved Blog
Last Edited By: Qwilion
09/25/08 09:09:12.
Edited 2 times.
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MadnessOfSet |
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Thanks for the clarification. Zachary's statement was rather vague - it kinda impugned Malhavoc but it wasn't clear if Malhavoc had actually done
anything.
Zachary also implied that some publishers were allowed to submit by link instead sending in 6 CDs but he didn't name names. |
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JediSoth |
Official Statement | ||
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This is the official statement from the ENnies:
The ENnies staff were disappointed to learn via his blog that ENnies judge Zachary Houghton has decided to resign his position following private debates between the elected 2008 judges and the Business Manager on a number of topics. Regarding the issues mentioned in his blog post, there currently is no policy to charge an admission fee to any ENnies entrants. If and when any new polices are enacted, they will be announced here on the ENnies website. Every year, the elected judges and the Business Manager take part in vigorous private discussion regarding ENnies policy on a number of issues. These conversations are considered private, and do not reflect any change in policy. The possibility and mechanisms of a possible nominal entry fee is raised and discussed every year, amongst many other topics. Concerning the ENnie awarded to Malhavoc Press' Book of Experimental Might 2, it was discovered long after the ENnies ceremony 2008 that it had missed the publication deadline by 5 days and was inadvertantly included in the deliberations for 2008. This was an honest mistake on the part of the ENnies judges. It was the unanimous decision of the current judges not to revoke the award, as it was felt that it would unfairly punish Malhavoc Press for our mistake as well as disenfranchise all the fans who voted for it. It is not an error which we anticipate reoccurrence of. Although we had intended to announce this decision soon, we are disappointed that a judge felt it appropriate to do so before we did. We would like to assure everyone that no submission dates were retroactively altered, and that we do not feel such an action would ever be appropriate. You can view the announcement (which is exactly as I've posted) here, at the ENnies Website..
Hans, the original JediSoth
ENnie Awards Submissions Coordinator 3.X Grognard, Writer, Editor, Graphic Designer, Foodie I have a blog: The Dark Side of My Mind |
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ozedge |
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i would assume fansite and podcast would be appropriate to be linked to as opposed to sending in the required copies... This would enable more entries to be
valid in my opinion.
On the subject of the missed cut off date... Yes it looks like Malhavoc missed the date... but the votes are valid and Zachary should have known better than to share what would have been private posts between judges. I very much doubt the decision by the ennies would have been to "extend the date retroactively" as opposed to just saying "oops we made a mistake but the fairest thing is to keep going." All Zachary has done is affect the perception people have on the ennie process which i dont feel is actually warranted.
oooh i never have a signature
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JoeGKushner |
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And I don't think Zach's posted anything since about this has he?
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JediSoth |
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JoeGKushner wrote:Not to my knowledge. I've only regularly been checking this thread and the one at ENWorld. The thread at his Blog has some posters who have some VERY unkind things to say about the ENnies and everyone involved, so I stopped going there because I don't need to read that crap.
Hans, the original JediSoth
ENnie Awards Submissions Coordinator 3.X Grognard, Writer, Editor, Graphic Designer, Foodie I have a blog: The Dark Side of My Mind |
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ozedge |
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nah i havent seen anything else since the original post either.. and i agree i stopped reading his blog after all the negative stuff started popping up
oooh i never have a signature
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Aracon |
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Yawn.
Having dealt with ethical issues at work for decades, Zachary's reasons for quitting seem, well, absolutely silly. His complaints are: 1. Payment of a submission fee for the convenience of award consideration My take: this makes logical sense to prevent thousands of poor quality submissions 2. A mistake over a deadline date of 5 days, something that the ENies appear to have fixed for future entries My take: mistakes happen Personally, I could care less about the ENies, but I do find it libel to insinuate some type of ethical abuses with the awards process and/or Malhavoc Press based upon these flimsy items. Quite frankly, Zachary comes across to me as both a whiner and someone "holier than thou" with a "my way or the highway" approach. His public comments could easily be considered libel. This is perhaps yet another chapter for Monte's upcoming conspiracy book.... HOW ZACHARY BELIEVES THAT MALHAVOC PRESS BRIBED THE ENIES FOR SPECIAL TREATMENT. gimme a break |
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JoeyJoeJoeJunShabadoo |
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I agree it's silly. Heck, since the Ennies haven't charged a fee or retroactively changed the submission deadline, he's not even resigned over
anything substantial. He resigned just because somebody may have brought up the subject in a meeting.
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Justin Alexander |
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Aracon wrote:Pay-to-play awards are, quite rightfully, considered to be jokes in every other branch of the publishing industry. The Ennies, after giving awards to the most pitiful of products in their early years of existence, have never done anything since to convince me that they aren't a joke... but for them to take a course of action which says, "Yup, we're a joke." Would still be pretty sad. Mistakes do happen. And when you discover them, you 'fess up. If you don't, then you kinda sacrifice the right of moral outrage when someone points a finger and says, "Hey, they're not fessing up." I would agree, however, that resigning over courses of action which weren't even formally adopted (merely considered in some way) doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And I'll also agree that the original post in this thread is needlessly inflammatory in both its mischaracterization of what Zachary actually said and in its baseless implication that Monte was somehow seeking "special treatment".
Legends & Labyrinths - 3rd Edition Lives City Supplements:
Dweredell - Aerie
Adventure Supplements: Complex of Zombies Rule Supplements: Mounted Combat Thoughts on 4th Edition / Advanced Rules: Crowds - Fires |
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the Dahgda |
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See, the issue hinges on whether or not you think BoXM2 would have been nominated next year - and I think it is safe to say it would be. So what would Monte
have to gain by seeking special treatment regarding the submission date?
And do people really think Monte needs such ego-stroking like this implies? *Shrug* From all the blog posts he does and comments here, he seems a little too laidback to worry about it. He seems to appreciate when we like what he produces, but he does not live or die by our reactions. Yes, it is his work (meaning business), but it is also a game, and I think he understands that. As for Zachary, I do not know him, but without more evidence to show some sort of conspiracy, this just seems... silly. Now can we get back to serious debates, like the value of one game system over another???? Sheesh, you people are letting me down!!!! *GRIN* |
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