Teleportation Circles

RSS
Email

0 Kudo

Author	Comment
theBlackJaw	Teleportation Circles	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1938 (06/10/08 10:23:26) Cryptic Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : 4ed, teleportation, teleportation circles, dmg, rituals Did anyone else notice the interesting Teleportation mechanics of 4ed. I'm talking about the long distance travel ones that are rituals, not the short range ones that players can do in combat starting at first level. The basic system in 4ed is that there are permanent teleportation circles scattered across the lands. Most are in cities, mage guilds, various temples, etc. Each circle has a selection of arcane marks that are unique to that circle (arcane GPS coordinates). These circles do nothing on their own, but they are the target for the 10 minute ritual that opens a short lived one-way teleportation circle. To link to a circle, you have to know it's arcane marks... meaning either research or having seen it. In general, these teleports are cheaper if they are cast from a circle to another circle, but can be done from anywhere to a circle. Linked Portal (8) - Teleport to a circle on the same plane. Same level as Raising the dead. Planar Portal (18) - Teleport to a circle on another plane. Forbiddance (20) - Can block teleportation unless of higher level then caster of the ritual. Can be sustained by spending 1 healing surge each day (even if not in area) and after a year and a day, becomes permanent. True Portal (28) - Teleport without using a circle. Now on the one side this is a mechanic I find reminiscent of town portals in Diablo, or the Stargate, although not exactly like either. I can see why they did it: No more trouble with Scry and Die until level 28. It also makes for better or easier use with plot points... and it makes teleportation circle designations a valuable commodity. Players will likely have to travel on foot across the country to find somewhere the first time, but can teleport back whenever they are willing to pay the price rather then travel. Joining a mage guild might provide you with the ring codes for circles at each chapter house, making overland travel much faster. Page 156 of the new DMG seems to talk about this in a side bar along with some interesting adventure hook concepts... but it doesn't go into anything in big detail. Where would these circles be? Who made them and why? How might various cities or groups guard them? Do wealthy merchants travel via them or even transport good via them? etc. What kind of wards might be encountered around them? Also, there don't seem to be rules for making your own permanent teleportation circles (yet.) --BlackJaw "May the Orc spit in your Pie!" --BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-- GO d- s:- a- C++ UL->+ P+ L>+ E? W+++ N+ o? K? w+(-) O? M@ V? !PS PE@ Y+ PGP t-- 5-(+) X R++>+++$ tv+ b++$ DI++ D++ G e++ h+ !r y+ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- Last Edited By: theBlackJaw 06/10/08 10:52:51. Edited 1 time.
Braro		#1	[-]
Posts: 1778 (06/10/08 10:46:04) Cryptic Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	It would probably be a big ritual. I imagine it was one of the older empires that made them origionally; everyone else just used them to try and grow from that. Sort of like the roman roads. Or maybe the Giants made them, back when the primordials are big. Or perhaps the first portal was made by the gods, but everything else was built off of that as some form of replica. ...Maybe the teleporters actually utilized the place where the Chained God sleeps. They're a form of prison, but if someone were to become attuned to them... Maybe they use the far realms...
Confused Jackal Mage		#2	[-]
Posts: 6215 (06/10/08 10:48:19) Iron Liege Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yeah, I noticed the curious lack of TC creation rules too. Not hard to wing - I'd guess it's a ritual as well, probably one with an extended casting time (hours or more - I could see a month-long attunement period with daily intervention to establish one). This does seem most similar to the Stargates. Further questions that occur to me: is there any good way to mask the marks? That is, could a mage guild monopolize travel along their routes by only teaching the sigils to their initiates and preventing travelers from seeing them? Is there any way to detect at the Circle that a Linked Portal ritual is being performed? Really, is there any way at all to control who comes through your portals? It seems like a city'd want their Circles out in the open and a goodly bit away from any important bits, so they can see if something nasty comes through and ready themselves for it quickly. "Observer-dependent physics undermines the gods' decision 3000 years ago to ban cats from straddling the borders of the netherworld. We won't have it!" "I have reservations about reconciling a quantum mechanics thought experiment with egyptian mythology." "Djinn and Juice", Dresden Codak
theBlackJaw		#3	[-]
Posts: 1939 (06/10/08 11:03:31) Cryptic Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I wondered about hiding the marks as well. They would have to be there, built into the circle, but I don't see why you couldn't conceal them with something as easy as a metal plate or as complex as ritual illusion. When the portal is open, you can see through it in both directions, although things are hazy and everything has effective concealment. The range of the vision is 60'. If a portal from hell opened up, you'd know it. I think most portal would be built in secure locations. Were I having one setup in a city, I would likely set it up outside the town walls a good distance, making it no more likely to be used for an attack then the road into town. I might still build a watch tower next to it. I also think various defenses could be used to make them more secure. The Magic Circle ritual comes to mind, as you could set it for certain nasty origin types. --BlackJaw "May the Orc spit in your Pie!" --BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-- GO d- s:- a- C++ UL->+ P+ L>+ E? W+++ N+ o? K? w+(-) O? M@ V? !PS PE@ Y+ PGP t-- 5-(+) X R++>+++$ tv+ b++$ DI++ D++ G e++ h+ !r y+ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK--
Cthon		#4	[-]
Posts: 5997 (06/10/08 11:08:34) No need for labels, right? Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think I would make construction of the circle similar to constructing an expensive, level 25+ magic item. It would be a very big deal that very few folks could ever do. Funny--though many folks come away from 4e with the "pulpy" or video-game feel, things like teleport circles make 4e seem more like fantasy literature that I remember (no, not LotR, but then again, D&D was never much like LotR). _______________________ bored with changing signatures
Runner Ikthya		#5	[-]
Posts: 98 (06/10/08 11:19:31) What's going on? Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I must say, This was the first thing I saw (that was not in the preview stuff) that really made me happy for 4th edition. There are so many ways to use these in a game, so many ways to tweak to help define a setting. As CJM brought up, if in one setting you CAN hide the GPS runes, then you have a completely different setting that one where you rule that you cannot. A setting where you add a ritual to create a new Circle will have a different feel that one where you cannot. You could even rule that there is no magic in making a circle, you just need a big slab of (whatever you make them out of), the arcane skill to figure out the runes to spell where you are, and a chisel. That would make yet a different feel. You say it's made out of Jade (or another rare stone) you change it yet again. You use Jade (et al) AND a ritual and you get another variant, where you need to quest to get a big slab of Jade, and the scroll. Even what level you make the creation ritual changes things. So many ways to tweak your setting, and no need to decide if you memorize teleport vs combat spells, a cost on teleportation to stop characters from bouncing around the world, and no scry-n-die till late epic. I love the new teleport rules. ~~ Don't forget your grain of salt. Last Edited By: Runner Ikthya 06/10/08 11:34:16. Edited 1 times.
Crazy Jerome		#6	[-]
Posts: 2991 (06/10/08 11:33:22) Mysterious Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I like this, but that is not surprising. In my first 3E campaign, in 2000, a major feature of the campaign was that there were "teleportation stones" scattered throughout the land, many of which had fallen into disuse after a previous cataclysm. What wasn't explained immediately, but emerged during the campaign, was that the stones only worked when fed off of life energy. In the heyday of the previous empire, the church fed the stones. In the crisis that followed, the church and mage guild could not maintain the citadels and staff around each stone to maintain it. So they shut most of them down, and got really secretive about how the remaining ones worked. It had always taken spells from both priest and wizard to power them properly, and now both sides weren't always talking. What happened was that the stones begin to steal a bit of life from each creature using one--not enough to be obvious, but certainly enough to take a year or two off a merchant's life, if he used the stones all the time. And the stones that were out in the wild, cut off from any control at all? Some of them became vampiric. At the start of the campaign, the entire economy of the resurgent empire was based on the rapid movement of key individuals and commodities, and especially information, between the highly profitable enclaves, ignoring the wilderness in between. Which was fine, until a very old organization started tapping into vampiric stones, connecting them up to existing ones, and making unauthorized teleports. I got three years out of that idea. Shame that I already used it, since it would work pretty well with a Point of Light setting. CJ "The smell of burnt fire monkey is not a cure for sea sickness." - my players
Braro		#7	[-]
Posts: 1784 (06/10/08 11:39:16) Cryptic Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I wonder about swiping the serpent road idea from FFIV. "Yes, you can travel very quickly by using this portal, but it will drain your life," and have that represent healing surges.
theBlackJaw		#8	[-]
Posts: 1940 (06/10/08 11:41:12) Cryptic Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I would say the cost of teleportation, and the lack of location glyphs, would keep players from using it at low level but make it more viable at high level. COST From Circle to Circle, same plane - 85gp From Place to Circle, same plane - 135gp From Circle to Circle, other plane - 4,950gp From Place to Circle, other plane - 5,000gp From Circle to Place, same plane - 49,000gp From Place to Place, same plane - 50,000gp 85 gp is a tiny amount to an epic character. It's not even that much to a level 8 character. I would have to say that the main limit here, at least to level 28, is the the glyphs and circles. If there are very few of these circles, and their glyphs are well guarded secrets, then this ritual becomes rare for the PCs to use, and very hard to abuse. Keep in mind that if the PCs get Linked Portal, they are supposed to get 2 free glyphs with it. The same is also true of Planar Portal. And note that the temporary circle you make to cast these rituals vanishes after (at the most) 5 rounds when the portal closes. That means if a bad guy uses it to escape, you don't get to see the runes for where he went being left behind. --BlackJaw "May the Orc spit in your Pie!" --BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-- GO d- s:- a- C++ UL->+ P+ L>+ E? W+++ N+ o? K? w+(-) O? M@ V? !PS PE@ Y+ PGP t-- 5-(+) X R++>+++$ tv+ b++$ DI++ D++ G e++ h+ !r y+ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- Last Edited By: theBlackJaw 06/10/08 11:45:17. Edited 1 times.
evilWurst		#9	[-]
Posts: 1274 (06/10/08 12:33:18) Help me. Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I take almost the opposite approach here; it doesn't seem to me that making the permanent teleport circles shouldn't be fairly easy to make. Part of this is from being a computer geek. A temporary circle (sender-side) is just chalked out on the floor in expensive chalk, and the only requirements, visually, seem to be that it's a circle and the runes outside it match the destination. A permanent circle (target-side), IMO, is just set into the floor out of precious metals. The addressing runes are, too. If you want to send with it, you get out the chalk again and cross out the runes that don't match, writing in the correct target runes above them. You'd have to know the Linked Portal ritual to make one of these, and it'd probably cost 10x the price of the temporary one. Maybe you need to know both Linked Portal and Enchant Magic Item? Now add math geekery: In the picture of the spell, there are at least 16 runes. It's not the Dwarf or Elf script, but if we use those as examples, that would make for 37 possible characters (not counting null/space). So if the order matters and the number of runes matters - we'll go with 16 for now - that's 37 to the 16th power addresses. He may as well just roll dice for random runes, because he's not going to collide with an existing circle! (popping 37 ** 16 into an interpreter gives me a 26 digit number! Specifically: 12337511914217166362274241) Oh, but maybe that would be too easy? Maybe we want to limit the address space a whole bunch? Ok... let's say we want each rune to be unique, and that the order doesn't matter. (IMO, the use of the word "sequence" in the ritual descriptions implies to me that it's an ordered sequence, but we do the math anyway for fun). And so I pull out the trusty TI-85, go to Math/Prob and punch in 37 nCr 16, and I get... 12,875,774,670. That's still an awful lot of addresses. Even if there are a million permacircles out there, the millionth-and-first wizard can still pick a random set of runes and be unlikely to clash with an existing circle, and bored wizards don't spend lazy sunday afternoons trying the spell with a random destination I wonder if casting Planar Portal requires a couple extra runes to signify the target plane? If so, if you found a destination code somewhere, you'd know by the length if it was on your plane, and you possibly might know (or be able to research) the planar zip code... Addendum: eyeballing the art again, I notice a rune appears twice in there!
evilWurst		#10	[-]
Posts: 1275 (06/10/08 13:03:36) Help me. Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	(original post got kinda lengthy, so I'll do this in a separate post) Another thought occurred to me: you know, maybe accidentally having two circles with the same address doesn't cause one or both to fail. What if the spell actually brings you to whichever matching circle is closest? If so, I could see a global wizard guild exploiting this property to their advantage. "Congratulations on reaching level 11! Here's our Paragon address; it'll always take you to our privileged area in the capital of whatever nation you're in!" "Congratulations on reaching level 21! Here's our Epic address! It'll always take you to the closest Epic guild center!" - and the Epic one could have a level 20 permanent Forbiddence on it. Of course, the inherent plot hook here is: the level 11 stuff is kinda flaky. A global guild would have lots of level 11s. What if one turned traitor and shared the code? There could be raids on guild houses, or, worse, someone could craft some cleverly located circles and use them to abduct people trying to portal in!
Confused Jackal Mage		#11	[-]
Posts: 6222 (06/10/08 13:04:06) Iron Liege Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Actually, the 133,603 wizard has even odds of selecting a set of runes that has already been used, at least in the order-doesn't-matter set. In the first example where the rune order does matter, you have to burn through roughly 4e12 (4 trillion) circles before it becomes likely that you'll hit one that already exists. Both calculations assume 16 runes in each circle and an alphabet of 37 characters. "Observer-dependent physics undermines the gods' decision 3000 years ago to ban cats from straddling the borders of the netherworld. We won't have it!" "I have reservations about reconciling a quantum mechanics thought experiment with egyptian mythology." "Djinn and Juice", Dresden Codak
Braro		#12	[-]
Posts: 1788 (06/10/08 13:06:48) Cryptic Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Man, these ideas are awesome. I was considering a network of them like from Lufia; each one took you to an island out in the ocean, which was like a location filled with doors; you could conceivably get anywhere from this place.
evilWurst		#13	[-]
Posts: 1276 (06/10/08 13:44:31) Help me. Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Confused Jackal Mage wrote: Actually, the 133,603 wizard has even odds of selecting a set of runes that has already been used, at least in the order-doesn't-matter set. In the first example where the rune order does matter, you have to burn through roughly 4e12 (4 trillion) circles before it becomes likely that you'll hit one that already exists. Both calculations assume 16 runes in each circle and an alphabet of 37 characters. Not exactly. His odds would be 133,602 in 12 billion (rounding down for convenience). Perhaps more interesting is the odds that anyone at all ever had a collision? That turns out to be an easily solved summation. The first wizard has 0 in 12 bil (because no other circles exist yet), the second has 1 in 12 bil (because only one circle exists), and so on. In other words the sum is, (n * (n - 1)) / 2, which represents "the odds that any wizard before me guessed an already used number". By the time of the 133,603rd wizard, the odds are 8.8 billion to 12 billion that someone, somewhere guess badly. By the millionth wizard, the odds are about 500 billion to 12 billion; it's probably happened several times. But we, the player of the million-and-first wizard, don't really care if anyone else screwed up in the past; we care about our own personal chances, which are still only 1 million in 12 billion. (using the non-rounded numbers: it's a 0.0077 percent chance ). Also note that while I've been saying "wizard", these are actually the calculations for the simultaneous number of circles... If we try restricting it in a different way: what if there are only 16 runes? Then the order has to matter, and we're looking at permutations instead of combinations. In which case there are 16 factorial codes (16 * 15 * 14 * ... * 2 * 1). My calculator, using nPr instead of nCr, gives about 2E13
theBlackJaw		#14	[-]
Posts: 1942 (06/10/08 14:13:04) Cryptic Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	GPS vs Phone idea: The runes on a circle describe it's place like a GPS code... meaning that if you know there is a ring around location x, you can try various combinations of codes till you hit the right one. This would be a "Stargate" like system were you could, in theory, derive the glyphs from the surroundings. It also means two glyphs would never overlap as they would have to be in the same place for them to be valid. It also means that moving a circle enough will leave it useless. No putting a circle on a ship or floating castle. Another idea: Who says there are only x number glyphs? What if it is less a series of magical runes or words and more like symbols or patterns... there could be more or less infinite glyphs. It would be nearly impossible to stumble upon a used pattern this way. The glyphs could be a random selection or derived from local nodes/etc. If Glyphs are not tied to a location, then it would be possible to damage a circle at location A and build a new one in location B (a dungeon, a trap, etc) with the same glyphs, resulting in those transporting to location A getting B instead. If they don't take the time to look through the portal first, or if you are tricky enough in where you build it, they won't know it's a trap. Idea: The glyphs on a circle have to do with where it was made, and when it was made... making it impossible for 2 circles to be made with the same glyphs, but the circles might still be mobile, and you can not derive a circle's code from it's location. You can derive it from it's history, if you know that well enough. Similarly: The glyphs might also have to do with who made the circle... including different languages or styles of glyphs... elf glyphs or even just a Primordial/Divine divide. Elf circles could look different from Dwarf ones, etc. Human ones may be a nice ordered set of magic symbols while Fey ones are strange and disjointed. Circles in holy places may invoke names of gods, exarchs, or scripture. --BlackJaw "May the Orc spit in your Pie!" --BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-- GO d- s:- a- C++ UL->+ P+ L>+ E? W+++ N+ o? K? w+(-) O? M@ V? !PS PE@ Y+ PGP t-- 5-(+) X R++>+++$ tv+ b++$ DI++ D++ G e++ h+ !r y+ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK--
Confused Jackal Mage		#15	[-]
Posts: 6224 (06/10/08 14:17:54) Iron Liege Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Ah, right. I was actually calculating the odds that, in the first x circles, someone had a collision. When you get to 133,602 (or 4e12) circles, there's just over 50% chance that someone's collided before. Of course the 133602nd mage himself only had a 133602/1e10 chance of colliding with an existing circle, but those probabilities add up quickly when you look at groups of people. I'm not honestly expecting that many circles to exist in the world, but hey, if we don't plan ahead our descendants will curse us for not anticipating multiple teleportation circles per home as they make a painful transition to the new TCv6 addressing protocol. "Observer-dependent physics undermines the gods' decision 3000 years ago to ban cats from straddling the borders of the netherworld. We won't have it!" "I have reservations about reconciling a quantum mechanics thought experiment with egyptian mythology." "Djinn and Juice", Dresden Codak
Yobgod		#16	[-]
Posts: 3161 (06/10/08 14:35:47) Mysterious Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'd think of the runes in a permanent circle as being less like that circle's "phone number + area code" and being more like the Truename of that location in multi-space and time. The ritual of creating a permanent circle reveals it's Truename in the process, but it's not really something you could determine from a different location, as the only way to precisely specify what location you were asking about would be to use the Truename in the first place... The glyphic representation then might be 23 runes long, or just 2... but you'll never get a collision because no two circles can occupy the exact same location. A circle at the exact arcane center of the multiverse might have just a single glyph.
Confused Jackal Mage		#17	[-]
Posts: 6227 (06/10/08 14:43:59) Iron Liege Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Huh. Last time I checked, the glyph sequence for my location was at least 15 symbols. There must be something wrong with this universe... "Observer-dependent physics undermines the gods' decision 3000 years ago to ban cats from straddling the borders of the netherworld. We won't have it!" "I have reservations about reconciling a quantum mechanics thought experiment with egyptian mythology." "Djinn and Juice", Dresden Codak
Raithe the Dreamer		#18	[-]
Posts: 476 (06/10/08 14:45:15) Just showed up Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	You know, I didn't check out these rules in detail in my run through of the PHB, and I have to say I really like them. Something similar to this is getting yanked for my 3.X games in the future. Let me stay where the wind will whisper to me, where the raindrops as they're falling tell a story.
nostantine		#19	[-]
Posts: 102 (06/10/08 14:51:59) Help me. Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	RtD: I used that in my last 3.5 campaign. Teleport was out, and you got: Analyze Teleport circle, and Tune Teleport Circle. You could only teleport to places that you casted Tune Teleport Circle. The material cost was 500gp per cast, but could get lessened by having material of a creature or an object that teleported. Analyze let you detect and identify another teleport circle. The game changes significantly in the mid/high levels when you can't just jaunt out of a dungeon at the drop of a scroll. But that was me. I loved it, my wizard groaned, the game moved on, and eventually it evened out. MUGATU! EEE! EEE!
Eldric IV		#20	[-]
Posts: 9766 (06/10/08 20:23:24) Resident Paladin Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	My PH is at a friend's house (left it there after we started Demonweb Pits on Saturday) but from reading this thread, the first thought in my mind was ChronoTrigger. Final Words, before the battle with Demogorgon: My life does not matter. It was given to me to better the lives of my people. Please give the Pureblade to my son so that he may finish what I start here today.

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Yuku free message boards

Teleportation Circles

Teleportation Circles

Quick Reply