I've been playing D&D, across 3 editions, for about 10 years now. In all that time, I've been able to play an actual PC maybe twice, and I
think I'm finally at my wit's end. My gaming group absolutely loves playing D&D; in-between sessions they're always coming up and asking when
we'll be ready to play again, and talking to me about their characters, and discussing story arcs and how they can be more involved. So I know there's
a level of interest there, you know? I mean it's not like I'm the only one who's interested in playing.
I found out a few months ago that a neighbour of mine plays D&D, and I joined in his session for a few months, and it was one of my the worst gaming
experiences of my life. Nobody, players or DM, knew the rules. Whenever anybody had questions about rulings, abilities, status effects, or whatever, they
turned to me instead of the Dungeon Master. And that gets tiresome after a while. On top of that, the DM was throwing us up against crazy high level monsters
and using Daily powers against us every round by mistake. Also, there was seemingly no thought at all given to party structure, and every member of the group
was a Striker. I ended up quitting that after only a few sessions.
Recently, some interest in DM'ing was shown by one of my players. I was overjoyed. I let him borrow all of my books, and said I'd help him with
absolutely anything he needed; doesn't matter if it's encounter design, or adventure composition, or NPC building or whatever. I let him know that if
he needed any help, I'd be there for him. That was about 2 months ago, I think. As far as I know, he's done nothing with it at all. I was really
excited about the possibility of playing, I mean I had my PC drawn up, with a complete backstory that I ran by him, within about a week and a half. So you can
imagine how disappointed I now am, knowing that there's really no chance of him building a campaign at this point.
Over the years, I've tried joining online roleplaying forums, with limited to no success. There tends to be three types of internet roleplaying forums:
the ones where every character is secretly a demon; the ones where "roleplaying" essentially means describing, at great length, sex scenes between
your drow fighter and someone else's drow wizard; and the ones where nobody ever goes, and you're the only person who ever posts. These are all
equally frustrating.
So I ask you guys ... no, no ... I beg you guys, to help me out here. Help me find a way to play D&D, or at the very least, roleplay out some
stories online with some other writers. I know I'm now the only DM that's had this problem. Surely someone on here can help me.
lol.
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Always the DM, never the Player.
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Always the DM, never the Player. |
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Posts: 54 (07/03/09 07:42:35) |
...d%.....Behavior
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Cthon |
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Posts: 7068 (07/03/09 08:05:06) No need for labels, right? |
Start small--instead of trying to get a player to run a campaign. Try helping a player you already game with to run a single adventure or two. Start with a
premade adventure that you provide (but have never read or played), like one available on the WotC site.
For a new DM, starting off with a premade adventure takes away most of the prep work and a lot of the anxiety.
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Carthain |
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Posts: 13859 (07/03/09 08:13:49) Keeper of the FAQ |
I'm also frequently the DM when I play with my friends.
Just recently got one of the players to try DMing. I told him how easy it was with 4E (well, easier then previous editions), showed him some of the tools given in the DMG and stuff like that. He's currently running a WotC adventure (P2 as we created level 14 characters for it, but I forget what it's called) and seems to be doing fine. The easiest part seemed to be that all he had to do was read the adventure and not come up with stuff on his own (forgot about treasure packets ... so the new DM will have to handle that tho.)
Carthain.
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lol |
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Posts: 55 (07/03/09 08:17:17) |
When my player said he'd be interested in DM'ing something, I gave him all of my materials, and even sat down with him to show him where in the book
he'd be able to find the information he'd need. For about a week, he seemed really into the idea of being a DM; he talked to me about some story ideas,
and he even had a pretty decent-sounding world thought up. Apparently, though, all of the information on his campaign world got thrown away, and he was going
to have to start from scratch. It was then that I suggested maybe using Faerun instead. Using pre-generated worlds takes a lot of the prep-work out of being a
DM, I said, but it also makes it easier on the players: when a DM creates a world of his own, that's awesome, but a lot of the time, the PCs don't know
where their characters can fit into those worlds. Using a pre-gen world like Faerun can be great because it's a place rich with history and intrigue, but
the players need not be intimately familiar with it in order to make a character (like they'd need to be with, say, Rokugan, where the culture and history
of the game world is extremely important). To players who don't know Faerun, it's like any other fantasy world. And that's what makes it so
powerful.
He seemed to really like that idea, and I know he tossed around some ideas about running a campaign in, or at least involving, the newly-undead-ruled nation of Thay, but that's the last I heard of his work. And that was a while ago. I could provide him with the Keep on the Shadowfell pre-gen adventure, but a) I've run it myself as a test of 4e, in which this person was a player, and b) I found it to be extremely difficult, both for the players but also as a DM - a lot of the information they provided was vague or boring, or both. I suppose there's a reason people call it "Keep on the TPK-fell". lol. ...d%.....Behavior
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Cthon |
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Posts: 7069 (07/03/09 10:43:10) No need for labels, right? |
I have taught players to become DMs myself at school. They are most successful when they start small: with individual encounters or short adventures, not
campaigns. What about that Dungeon Delve book? Has anyone used it?
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Carthain |
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Posts: 13861 (07/03/09 10:46:39) Keeper of the FAQ |
The player who is currently DMing used the Dungeon Delve book for, I think, 2 encounters before we started the adventure. It was to let us players get used to
our characters (as we'd just rolled up level 14 characters) and for him to get used to DMing.
Grimlocks can be painful.
Carthain.
"Eschew Obfuscation." |
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DarkHero69 |
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Posts: 176 (07/03/09 12:55:19) Just showed up |
I don't understand what's wrong with your home game except that you never get to play. MY solution to this is to make an NPC, who is basically your PC.
You still get to roleplay him, make comments, do things, and you get that levelling and growth experience. Also, it gives you a vested interest in the game and
keeping the group alive. If I didn't get to play my PC/NPC, DMing would be a drag, for me at least, especially since I really like being a player but
I'm ALWAYS DMing.
Another thing you might try is to find other players via either Pathfinder (www.paizo.com)(if you wish to play D&D 3.5ish game) or Wizards of the Coast living campaigns (4E). There are also groups and societies on Facebook.com, Meetup.com, and many other places to find players. Conventions are always fun too. Which state do you live in? Sometimes some focused times as a player helps refresh your DM batteries. Anyway, good luck with it. I'm starting up a Pathfinder organization in my area (Toronto) in the Fall so I'll be going through the same thing soon (eating scenarios and not getting to play). |
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DarkHero69 |
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Posts: 177 (07/03/09 12:59:52) Just showed up |
Concerning your player who was interested in DMing. I think it's too much for some people to make their own campaigns and NPCs. It's too much for me! I
don't have the time.
A new DM needs something really small and simple to get started. I recommend Pathfinder (organized play) scenarios (www.paizo.com) because their playtime is supposed to be small (4 hours). That's for D&D 3.5 though. Adventures from Dungeon magazine might also work, but these can get large. Maybe he should DM a solo adventure for you and just see how it works out, some people are embarassed to make mistakes in front of others. |
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Cthon |
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Posts: 7070 (07/04/09 00:42:31) No need for labels, right? |
There is nothing wrong with starting with encounters, rather than full adventures. A simple quest involving just 2 or 3 encounter areas is a great start, or
perhaps a creature lair that involves only 1 or 2 areas.
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PaRaLaX |
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Posts: 238 (07/04/09 15:50:18) Just showed up |
Cthon wrote: That's a good advice imho. I'd ask one of my other players to create an encounter for the rest of the group, complete with maybe a recurring NPC and a little backstory to the particular encounter. You can DM it yourself and the both of you can see how much the group likes it. Then let the player create a follow up encounter and let him do the DM job for a change. This was he is gradually introduced to our craft and can immediately see the results of his work.
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If pro is the opposite of con, progress must be the opposite of congress.
Last Edited By: PaRaLaX
07/04/09 15:55:10.
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varianor |
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Posts: 12121 (07/04/09 19:29:24) Moderator Supreme |
I like the "start small" approach. Another possibility is to go to a convention and try out a bunch of games together. You'll find some that are
not so good, but many that are quite excellent! It may be inspiring.
Lands of the Jade Oath. Coming soon from Rite Publishing. Beware the Bakemono. |
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madfox |
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Posts: 6967 (07/06/09 00:55:31) That's a lot of posts. |
DarkHero69 wrote:Between the lines I am reading that OP is playing 4E, which is also a lot more forgiving on beginning DMs then 3E. So, instead of going for Pathfinder, you could go for the RPGA Living Forgotten Realms adventures. You do not need to make it a full-fledged LFR Campaign (which actually does require a bit of experience to pull off since organized play campaigns have their own limitations), just picking one or two adventures as a try-out work fine. They are slightly bigger then the Delves, and also include role-playing and skill challenges. Mind you, note all adventures are equally usable, so if you want advice on which to run, do not hesitate to ask 
Having said that, I have given up training a DM for my own home game. I simply joined another one where I am the player. Getting your players to DM is not always very easy, and forcing them to do so rarely works. |
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durendal |
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Posts: 788 (07/06/09 03:32:49) Minimum 1 pt, right? |
One thing that could work is a Run Club, where everyone has to take turns running a single session adventure. This way the fledgling DM starts off small, but
also everyone else will have to give it a go too - who knows, maybe there is a DM hidden there who just needs to find out they really like it.
You could do it any way you wanted really - my idea was to have a set cast of 'variable' level, the idea being that they are adventurers all gathered together for drinks and yakking about the good times, so at the end of each session, someone has to say "but remember the time we..." then a hook, like "all fell head over heels for that elf at the tavern?", or "were captured by kobolds?" etc. Each session would be at a different level, maybe 7 one week, jumping back to 2 the next week for when they're captured by kobolds. Notably Unstable,
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lol |
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Posts: 56 (07/06/09 06:46:05) |
Got a call from my player who said he was interested in DM'ing earlier. He asked me if I could come over tonight after he gets off work to help him write
some D&D stuff. So that's good. He's only just recently moved in with his girlfriend, and as far as I know, she knows next to nothing about the
game. Last time I was over there, I jokingly suggested that she should play with us, basically in an effort to get us all talking about D&D again, but now
that he's calling me up asking for help, I dunno, maybe she really is interested in playing and that's his motivation for writing more. Whatever the
reason is, though, I told him I'd be there to help him with whatever he needed. And I will suggest to him that it might be best to start small, with a few
basic encounters in an adventure rather than a full-on campaign.
Regarding the suggestion that I play an NPC when I DM, well, I mean I've done it in the past. Frankly, it's not real fun for me, and I think it slows the game down heaps. For starters, I'm already playing ALL of the NPCs, and also all the monsters. Adding in one other NPC, that I have to make tactical decisions with against monsters who I'm also making tactical decisions with ... well, I don't enjoy it. And I don't think the players enjoy it either: sometimes I roll well when they roll poorly, and they think I'm fudging the numbers; sometimes I roll poorly when they roll well, and they think I'm minimizing his involvement; sometimes there's a locked door, and he's the only character with a high enough pick lock skill to open it, and I'm left to wonder why I locked the door in the first place. In the end, I just don't enjoy it. Especially because when I do get the opportunity to play, I carefully plan out what I'm going to do on my turn while everyone else is going so I don't hold the game up when it gets to me, and I don't have that freedom when I'm also moderating combat for the rest of the group and making decisions for the enemy. lol. ...d%.....Behavior
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JediSoth |
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Posts: 1839 (07/06/09 07:43:40) Boba Faen |
I almost always DM for my group. Most of my players are unwilling to DM either from a lack of interest or a lack of time to commit for game prep. I've had
to get my fix for playing the game from Gen Con; it is about the only time I actually get to play an RPG rather than run one. I have, in fact, never played 4E
(though I DM it), and only played 3.5 for about 4-6 sessions during an aborted attempt by one of my players to run a game (though I have played 3.5 at Gen
Con).
I used to play in one group and run for another. The last group in which I played and really enjoyed being a player dissolved in 2001. I've played since then, but haven't found myself drawn into the game the way I did in that game (during the early days of 3E). Recently, I've thought about joining the RPGA and playing with them at one of my FLGS. You might try to see if there are any RPGA events in your area, or just do what I've done for the last 5+ years: resign yourself to only being able to enjoy being a player once a year at Gen Con (unless you lack the means to attend).
Hans, the original JediSoth
ENnie Awards Submissions Coordinator Writer, Editor, Graphic Designer, Foodie I have a blog: The Dark Side of My Mind Check out my Campaign Journal! Look for Atom Man in Paragon City! (Liberty Server) Fear the Grim Revenant in the Rogue Isles (Liberty Server) |
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MattF |
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Posts: 187 (07/06/09 10:44:26) Spending some time |
I generally do the bulk of the DMing in the long-time group I play with - others have taken the reins on occasion, but I DM the most by far (which has been
true ever since I started playing back in 1979). I really enjoy DMing, but it's always nice to get to see things from the players' side of the table as
well.
My solution to getting to play a PC more often was to have Monte and Sue move back to Milwaukee and then play in Monte's game, but that may not work for everyone. 
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SolissVL |
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Posts: 723 (07/12/09 19:54:15) Minimum 1 pt, right? |
As the "guy who DMs" our group I started with pretty much 0 experience at the game. Heck, I still have about half the rules memorized that I really
WANT memorized. I am getting better at moving a session along and the like.
I hope you can get your buddy to DM, but the "start small" approach is really handy. We're getting a new player and tonight was our first session with him. Since one of the other players couldn't be here, I didn't want to introduce the parties new wizard while missing one of the guys so I just ran a 1 shot with some pregened characters i made up. It was fun and gave me a feel for how the new guy plays. I'd really encourage your buddy to just run a 1 shot adventure first. Or maybe 2 or 3 that could be tied together. There are TONS of low level adventures out there that can be run in an evening. Good luck! -8 modifier to crunch-fu |
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Dan C Davis |
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Posts: 357 (07/13/09 18:37:51) Minimum 1 pt, right? |
Lots of long posts, so I haven't read them all, but as the DM I create my own PC and use him as an NPC that's with the party in case one of the players
can't come out. One of the other players play him, but when it comes to levels and gear I get to upgrade him myself. It's not exactly like playing a
PC, but it's still fun.
Make the world a better place; slap someone who needs it.
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theBlackJaw |
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Posts: 2244 (07/19/09 20:39:58) Cryptic |
I use to be the designated DM back when I lived in CA. After moving to WA I've mostly been a player, and it's been fun to play through some 3rd and 4th
ed stuff... but I'm getting frustrated with the group I play D&D with. Part of it is the DM not really controlling the group very well, and part of it
is a focus on wacky characters and antics, even by the DM. I was very happy when we finally killed of Floppsy the Black Bunny Rabbit. I didn't mind the
Dwarf having a pet rabbit, but I really didn't like it talking, or sometimes growing into a huge monster.
I'm now tempted to start running a game again. 4ed looks easier to run and design for, and I am really missing the DM experience. Story lines, characters, and what not are bouncing around in my head a ton (I blame Dungeon A Day for some of that.) As advice, I recommend not having your player turned dm run the Keep of the Shadowfell. As intro adventurers go, I found it lacking. In fact, I as far as the Heroic level published adventurers go, I've not been impressed. Pyramid of Shadows, which my PC is now going through, has been troublesome due to it's lack of a town/village to fall back to, or purchase supplies at. I think a new DM might be much better off working with some of the low level Dragon Adventurers.
--BlackJaw
"May the Orc spit in your Pie!" sxy cm175 kg77 sp= Ag1980.June.28 hdd Lo47,39N-122,18W Rl! Kd! PeR FHb |
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Eric of Ptolus |
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Posts: 1428 (07/20/09 16:02:00) Commissar |
As DarkHero69 and Dan C Davis said, I run a "DMPC" along with the party. Its not
too hard to run them as separate entities from "me the DM" anymore. Usually to fill in a missing iconic (always the wizard, it seems). I think others in the group would step up and run if I didn't want to anymore, at least 2 would.
0A2D-052508-060908-Y-W-28/1000-M
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