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So your point is that at no time does your players ability to speak well give him an advantage in the game - even should his stats reflect that? Placing such heavy emphasis on the numbers rather than the players is fine for a computer game, but makes for a rather soulless table top experience. Skills should suppliment a role player's abilities and compensate for players who can't hold their own otherwise, but they are no replacement for eloquence and effort.

Ah, no. My point was that you cannot point to some rules (the character's stats) and ignore others (their skill rank) and be consistent, at least without some further explanation. You were baldly asserting that one trumped the other, when in the rules that is not true, and by mid level ranks in fact trump ability scores.

Paying attention to the character's actual stats over the player's eloquence (or the other way around) has both good and bad aspects, and it is disingenuous to imply that you hold the one right answer to how that should be balanced . Paying too much attention to the player's skill penalizes the player who simply can't speak well, and trivializes the character power spent on those points in the first place. Paying too much attention to the character's skill removes an essential element of fun and interaction from the game, putting a wall between the player and their character. Finding the appropriate balance is something that must be worked out in each individual group, as it depends largely on your players.

>>"That's... nice?" ... blah blah blah ...<<

And, yes, I'm glad you can be insulting ... but that doesn't add much to the argument, does it?

Your post that I responded to was a one-liner with no actual content, which insulted Dan by implying that he doesn't know how to roleplay, solely because his opinions on how to balance social skills with player input are different than your own. I showed restraint. I then pointed out *why* I felt your argument was non-productive, and I expanded on that in this post.

To answer your post directly, my games are *certainly* affected by the players' eloquence and creativity. If they come up with something cool, I run with it. That makes the entire game more fun for everyone. I also do my best to pay attention to what they have spent character resources on, however, so that they feel their choices on the character sheet actually have meaning. It's a difficult conflict, and like I said before, there simply isn't a single right answer.