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jasonbostwick |
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Along Eldric's lines, I subconciously had the Onett theme from Earthbound running through my head reading this.
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Knowe Remorse |
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I think the best way to locate the teleportation circles would be to find them by their MAC address, then assign them an appropriate IP address.
When the D&D world begins to fill up with circles, we can switch to the Hexadecimal system to accommodate the new worlds when those books get released.
Never hit a man when he is down. Kick him, it's alot easier.
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Braro |
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Chrono Trigger works; I was also thinking of all those fantasy books where portals are dangerous and cannot be used except by the PCs because they're just.
that. good. (Wheel of Time, for example.)
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Kadh2000 |
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Hmm. Stargate anyone?
Pippin: Are we lost?
Merry: No Pippin: I think we are Merry: Shh. Gandalf's thinkin' Pippin: Merry? Merry: What? Pippin: I'm hungry |
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Braro |
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"Close the Iris!"
There's tons of stuff here. |
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Merganser86 |
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Cool. My initial thought is the teleport system in WoW (which is not a criticism), where you can only 'port to a specific point in each of the capital
cities. I like the way it works out alot; I'll probably yank the concept, at least, for my games (whatever system they end up being.)
-E |
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Young Rocket Samurai |
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This suits my game perfectly. I had already planned to have a secret society of teleporters in my game that were the real experts in long-distance travel. They were the ones who knew all the addresses, so to speak, and travel without using them was difficult at best. The PC's village was going to have a beacon/obelisk/stargate/whatever right in the middle of town, only nobody knows what it is or how to use it. Teleport circles fit this just right. Now there is a teleport circle in the middle of town. Too easy. |
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Tiburon Silverflame |
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On creating the permanent circle...I noticed it wasn't there too. And I can't buy the "it's a product of ancient lost magic" approach,
because they feel much too common. Forbiddance is a big ritual that can serve as the baseline; IIRC, it requires an initial investment of 5 healing surges, and
can be maintained by a daily expenditure. If you sustain it for a year, it's permanent. That'd work here.
Another borrow: from Kurtz' Deryni novels. She had ward cubes that served several functions...too many to be a reasonable, balanced magical item, but IIRC, one of them was as a teleport assist. A set of rune cubes to serve as a focus, to just ditch the minor cost (ie, the destination is a circle). In-game rationale, it's easier to carry a set of these, than worry about having the right components for the ritual. Actually, this is the kind of item I expect DMs and players to develop, when rituals are a significant aspect of a campaign. No one likes petty bookkeeping. And on the math...if I have: --37 runes --order is significant --runes *can be* repeated Then even *8* runes for an address, gives 3.5 trillion (37 to the 8th power) possible 'addresses'. Other thoughts: permanent circles make arrival easy, so they do have some global influence. One could argue that, when the permanent ritual is being executed, and the runes drawn...there's a clear 'stress' if your 'address' duplicates an existing 'address' and this will cause the ritual to fail, *if* you continue on that path...but you can still adjust the runes to create a new, unused, address before doing so. |
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Amaranthine |
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To me, this brought to mind the teleport patterns in the Riftwar. Locations would set up patterns that you could focus on to teleport there. If you knew a
location well enough (Pug knew the pattern of cobblestones in his home town) you could just focus on that pattern.
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Yobgod |
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"She had ward cubes that served several functions...too many to be a reasonable, balanced magical item"
I'm not sure about that. Sure they did a bunch of different things, but each of those things by itself feels like a reasonable wondrous item which means that the sum of them could be made as a reasonable wondrous item. That the books have the cubes needing to recharge after a use even plays in perfectly with the idea of daily powers from your items. It's been a long time since I read those series, what are all the functions we know of? So far they fit into 4e surprisingly well... Ward Major (alarm) - similar to Eye of Alarm ritual (maybe instead creating an invisible barrier around an area that alerts the caster when crossed rather than eyes). Teleport Assist - give the same benefit as using a permanent circle as your source. |
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Amaranthine |
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theBlackJaw wrote:I was reading threads about teleportation and came across this quote, which sounded different that how I remembered reading the descriptions. So I reread the PH section. I didn't notice a correction in the thread, so I'll post it now. Having a pair of circles for Linked Portal reduces the cost to 50gp, not by 50gp (to 85gp). The same wording applies to Planar Portal, as well, to that one also drops to 50gp. For True Portal, the reduction is to 1,000gp. Here's a revised summary of the COSTS From Circle to Circle, any plane - 50gp From Place to Circle, same plane - 135gp From Circle to Place, same plane - 1,000gp From Place to Circle, other plane - 5,000gp From Place to Place, same plane - 50,000gp (ie 3e Teleport). So traveling to a known circle is quite affordable (definately for PCs and can likely be assumed to be used to transport low bulk / high value items and for "jetsetting" nobility). At least partially repeating what has been mentioned in this thread, Circle placement and the possibility of hiding its symbols have large security implications. I'll leave out the True Portal from these considerations, because if you have a level 28+ being trying to get in, its going to get in. Any guards on the target end will get very little warning (ie Portal opens and things pour out). Perhaps halfway through the ritual, it is noticeable that a Portal is forming (ie Stargate powering up)? A hostile force will not be sending an army through the gate, though a squad of "elite" troops could do so. They won't be getting any reinforcements for at least 10 minutes though, assuming same origin point. If several casters are creating "Place to Circle" portals (or they have multiple origin circles), you very well might end up with a larger scale invasion. Perhaps a circle can only be used once in a 10 minute timeframe (if you try connecting to a circle that someone else is already performing the ritual for, you get a busy signal)? Circle placement will very likely be placed towards the outer layers of any defenses. Placing it outside of those defenses will just be giving a besieging army a "no supply line required" card, while placing it too deep within the defenses just gives you an additional location to that requires defending. A city with a Circle could have it near its wall, in a large enclosure. Fortifications would be in place, though usually just manned with a "watchman" type force (nearby garison or main gate guards would be available if back up is needed). Any temple or guild who set up their own Circle within the town would likely have their charter revoked. The above assumes that these Circles cannot really be hidden. Even if the symbols on the Circle itself can be obscured or hidden, anyone witnessing someone use Link Portal will have 10 minutes of observation to learn the symbols. Even with circles that are only used within a guild, you can never be sure that someone, somewhere, doesn't know your combination, and Telepaths (when available) will likely be able to pick up such information fairly easily. Perhaps the Arcane Lock or another, similar, ritual (with an increased component cost) could disable a Circle until dismissed? |
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theBlackJaw |
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Wow, you're right. It reduces the cost to 50gp.
I'm not sure I like that reading of the Planar Portal ritual: Linked portal drops the price to about a third. True Portal drops to one fiftieth the price. If applied to Planar Portal it would be one hundredth the price. On the other hand, Making Planar Portal always cost 5,000 gp means that True Portal with a portal basis cost LESS then Planar Portal, although True Portal does not work from Plane to Plane. How easy do I want Planar Portal to be in the setting. Not just for PCs, but for the other movers and shakers in the world?
--BlackJaw
"May the Orc spit in your Pie!" --BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-- GO d- s:- a- C++ UL->+ P+ L>+ E? W+++ N+ o? K? w+(-) O? M@ V? !PS PE@ Y+ PGP t-- 5-(+) X R++>+++$ tv+ b++$ DI++ D++ G e++ h+ !r y+ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- |
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Ampherion |
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evilWurst wrote: If the rules are actually arcane GPS coordinates, then we have far fewer iterations here as they wouldn't just be listed in any random order, I would
think 4x4. One set of 4 for x, y, z and plane.
1A1S-060412-060806-N-W-523/1000-MX
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Daosus |
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Oh my God! The WotC ninjas climbed into my house and read my "ideas and houserules" notebook! OK, I'm just kidding, but I did come up with
something very similar (independently). I think it makes sense, and I'm sure many more people have come up with this as well. This is a good change, not
only because it prevents Scry'n'Die during gameplay, but makes worldbuilding so much easier.
My Blog -- new content! (not much)
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Amaranthine |
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Can powers extend through a Portal? I'd swear I read something about something similar, but none of the Portals mention it.
Is there a power that makes two squares adjacent? |
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theBlackJaw |
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Arcane Gate, page 163, but it doesn't mention seeing or attack through it.
The ritual itself talks about things being blurry and labels it Concealment. It also talks about continuing actions on the other side... but the portal only effects "creatures" so attacks wouldn't really work.
--BlackJaw
"May the Orc spit in your Pie!" --BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-- GO d- s:- a- C++ UL->+ P+ L>+ E? W+++ N+ o? K? w+(-) O? M@ V? !PS PE@ Y+ PGP t-- 5-(+) X R++>+++$ tv+ b++$ DI++ D++ G e++ h+ !r y+ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- |
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varianor |
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This is a vote in 4E's favor in my book. (Not that I have the books yet.) We discussed this back about 6-7 years ago on this very board, and everyone
thought it would reign in a lot of the problems created by teleport. (I like it too because players will see parts of the countryside.)
Now that said, how about teleport squares? Only modrons can use them? Or everyone? (You just cease to be hip.) On a more serious note, I think it would be cool to have some circles that you can only get to if you were born to certain bloodlines. Opens up lots of adventure possibilities.
My latest works: Faces of Serran: Radinemus and Dark Houses
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evilWurst |
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Ampherion wrote: Well, yeah, if they're coordinates tied to position, then we don't need to look at unique combinations at all. Instead we'd need to look at the
circles-per-zone. Which depends on the total size of each plane... and vast numbers of coordinates are wasted.
Hmm. We could use Earth as our example plane, of course. 37 to the 4th is 1,874,161. Earth's circumference at the equator is about 40,000 km. That
makes the x,y bounds of each address about 21 meters by 21 meters... that's not bad at all. Are 4e map squares 5x5 (feet)? That'd be about 12x12
squares. Our kitchen table maps could probably fit four uniquely addressed circles.
Alas, it gets less convenient if you want to map all the way from Earth's center to, say, L2 (the Earth-Moon Lagrange point on the other side of the moon). I'm finding numbers like 450000 km out there. Each address would be 240 meters tall. Also, it's dangerous if our addressing axes are all in order. (As in X goes 1, 2, 3, 4... or any predictable sequence for that matter). If you know how wide/long/tall addresses are, you could narrow any building's internal teleport potential down to a fairly small number of addresses. Small enough to start making guesses. Failures only cost ten minutes of a level 8 wizard's time... this is especially true for the 240 meter tall addressing scheme, since you don't need to worry much about "floors". Taking a real life example, according to wiki, Hearst Castle adds up to 8,300 square meters... so using the 21 for width/length and the 240 height, that's only about 400 possible addresses. You'd average 33 hours of ritual attempts to success if you simply guessed at random within that range and there was only one circle inside. Even if the castle happens to intersect a height line, you only double it to 66 hours. In reality if you wanted to crack a fortress that way, you'd already have at least some intel on what places were better to try guessing at first... with the smaller cell heights it could take ten or twenty times as long, but that's still doable. In this universe, security through obscurity just won't work. You'll have to shell out for Forbiddence and keep tabs on all the epic people who might have an epic scroll... Damn you people. I'm supposed to be doing homework now, not dreaming up my magical moon base's defenses! |
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Micah4 |
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However you do the math, I think a map of them should look like the coordinate display in the TARDIS in the new iteration of Doctor Who.
Just saying.
Fairy tales are more than true, not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten.
--G K Chesterton |
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Confused Jackal Mage |
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What reasoning is there for equally-spaced partitioning of space, though? This isn't physics, we're not dealing with math. Magic is all about
life and semantics and touchy-feely crap. So the size partitions should correspond roughly inversely to the amount of life/magic/whatever in the area. On the
surface of the planet near major towns, you can address things to the square. In a sparsely-populated farming community, you only get something like a
50-square area. In the middle of the wilderness, make it a square kilometer. And don't even think about hitting where you intend in the middle of the ocean
(because clearly mammalian life is more important than the various forms of oceanic life). On the flip side, you can address down to the square inch within the
grounds of the Mage's Guild in Waterdeep.
Of course, this makes the simplistic grid-based numbering impossible, but this was already inconsistent with the 4th "plane" axis (planes don't line up nicely to be addressed sequentially, do they?). This brings us back to a "Truenaming" style of addressing squares, which is honestly pretty similar in practice to the free-form naming we had before. There's just *no* chance of collision, as long as two wizards don't try to build their towers too close to each other in the wilderness (and even then, if they just wait a bit the partitions will naturally contract around them as magic gets worked, allowing for unique addressing again). This still brings us to something similar to the address hacking Wurst talked about, as I'm assuming the actual naming of a partition is somehow logically based on the names of the nearby partitions (though I'll leave the details of the logic to be swept under the rug). If an enemy can learn the name of a nearby partition, some good guessing may get them a decent partition within a fortress to mount their attack from.
"Observer-dependent physics undermines the gods' decision 3000 years ago to ban cats from straddling the borders of the
netherworld. We won't have it!"
"I have reservations about reconciling a quantum mechanics thought experiment with egyptian mythology." "Djinn and Juice", Dresden Codak |
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