Ethereal vs. incorporeal

Re: Ethereal vs. incorporeal

feeds@yuku.com (Yobgod) — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:32:47 GMT

This is fairly tangential, but in my mind I've always considered creatures to be formed from some combination of Body (STR/DEX/CON), Mind(INT/WIS), and Spirit(CHA).
Normal, living, creatures have all three, with the Body and Mind powered by the Spirit and positive (life) energy.

Classical D&D undead are powered by negative energy instead of positive energy.
Allowing for positive energy undead potentially leads to things like Ghostwalk, Revenants, etc.
The Mind...

Re: Ethereal vs. incorporeal

feeds@yuku.com (rweston) — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:28:25 GMT

I agree on the case with skeletons/zombie being constructs sometimes heck I'd use the animate object entry for them under those circumstances probably.
However, I still remember the creepy image from one of the "living dead" remakes, where a rotted zombie crawled out of a container - it's face mostly skull, but its' eyes still intact - looking around for victims... of course that could be a wight or some other intelligent undead.

...

Re: Ethereal vs. incorporeal

feeds@yuku.com (Tiburon Silverflame) — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 08:18:42 GMT

"Undead" are corporeal bodies that SHOULD be dead, but are not - they're animated despite having no "living" anatomy: from Skeletons through ghouls/wights/zombies on up to vampires

I draw a major distinction between skeletons and zombies, which IMO are much closer to constructs, and vampires and liches, which retain free will. There may be a few breakpoints here:

--those that qualify as Mindless
--vampires and...

Re: Ethereal vs. incorporeal

feeds@yuku.com (rweston) — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:09:45 GMT

Shadows are probably a corner case.
If I were to "re-imagine" the rules I'd probably do this:

"Undead" are corporeal bodies that SHOULD be dead, but are not - they're animated despite having no "living" anatomy:
from Skeletons through ghouls/wights/zombies on up to vampires

"Shadows" would be extraplanar demonic type entities from the plane of shadow with an incorporeal template.

"The restless...

Re: Ethereal vs. incorporeal

feeds@yuku.com (Tiburon Silverflame) — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:52:56 GMT

A shadow has some notable conceptual differences from a ghost. The shadow has a much stronger linkage, in 3E, to the plane of Shadows. It's probably true tho, that for the most part, there's no significant difference between 'spectre', 'ghost', and 'wraith'. In OldE, they all had to have separate monster entries because OldE had to work that way. So, some of the powers differences may come from that.

I don't think you need to make many more types,...

Re: Ethereal vs. incorporeal

feeds@yuku.com (rweston) — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:34:27 GMT

See - I've always thought that zombies, vampires, wights, ghouls etc should be "undead" while ghosts (and probably wraiths, spectres ect) should be considered "Spirits of the dead" - with a different ruleset for each.

I mean the ghost is fully & completely dead, it's a spirit that haunts the living, unable to move on, a very different thing from the "living dead"/Undead.

I have no problem with ghosts being ethereal (the spirit is...

Re: Ethereal vs. incorporeal

feeds@yuku.com (Dan C Davis) — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:19:15 GMT

Now I'm intrigued; I love villians coming back as ghosts to haunt the PCs who murdered them in cold blood, but I've never been too happy with the weird undead ghost rules. But judging by the cryptic responses, I'm guessing you'll get a cement pair of shoes and a trip to the river if you reveal anything more.

I had planned on just buying the rulebook, but now I see I'll have to buy the bestiary, too. Damn you, Reynolds! Damn you, Paizo! [/fistshake]...

Re: Ethereal vs. incorporeal

feeds@yuku.com (seankreynolds) — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:01:32 GMT

Dan C Davis wrote:

seankreynolds wrote:

You should play Pathfinder.
That sounds ominous. I just hope ghostwalk ghosts and undead ghosts stay different . . .

Very.

Re: Ethereal vs. incorporeal

feeds@yuku.com (Dan C Davis) — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:58:49 GMT

seankreynolds wrote:
You should play Pathfinder.

That sounds ominous. I just hope ghostwalk ghosts and undead ghosts stay different . . .

Re: Ethereal vs. incorporeal

feeds@yuku.com (seankreynolds) — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:19:52 GMT

Confused Jackal Mage wrote:
Honestly, ghosts are just *screwed up*. The Ethereal Plane is not the afterlife, and there is absolutely no reason for ghosts to be ethereal. It just makes everything crazy. I say ignore it and make 'em incorporeal all the way.

You should play Pathfinder.

Re: Ethereal vs. incorporeal

feeds@yuku.com (DerekDyer) — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 11:20:23 GMT

Maybe if you make them incorporeal *and* give them abilities to turn invisible or teleport. [Scary movie] Ghosts, while remaining incorporeal, have this ability to disappear, and come and go at-will.

Re: Ethereal vs. incorporeal

feeds@yuku.com (Confused Jackal Mage) — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 05:20:13 GMT

Honestly, ghosts are just *screwed up*. The Ethereal Plane is not the afterlife, and there is absolutely no reason for ghosts to be ethereal. It just makes everything crazy. I say ignore it and make 'em incorporeal all the way.

Re: Ethereal vs. incorporeal

feeds@yuku.com (rweston) — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:40:51 GMT

Man - I wish I'd remembered that Sean - much simpler breakdown.
I read it back when you posted it & it helped solidify (heh) the difference for me - the minute I saw your name in the thread it came flooding back.

Finniss - Sean's got some great articles along this line on his website - they're a great resource.

Rory

Re: Ethereal vs. incorporeal

feeds@yuku.com (seankreynolds) — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:29:10 GMT

read this

Re: Ethereal vs. incorporeal

feeds@yuku.com (Finniss) — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:21:47 GMT

Ok thanks. That's very detailed. It must have been the ghost that got me mixed up.

Re: Ethereal vs. incorporeal

feeds@yuku.com (rweston) — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 14:43:02 GMT

Hope this helps, in short hand, and Incorporeal creature has no body(he's all alone...) on any plane of existance, an ethereal creature DOES have a body, it's just on another plane.
Incorporeal creatures cannot interact with Ethereal creatures, and ghost touch weapons cannot hurt ethereal creatures*
Incorporeal: Wraith, Spectre
Ethereal: Phase Spider, Ghost
* A Ghost CAN interact with the material world using his "manifestation" power, and said...

Ethereal vs. incorporeal

feeds@yuku.com (Finniss) — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 14:20:21 GMT

I was wondering what the difference is between incorporeal and ethereal. I know that incorporeal creatures can interact with corporeal creatures but ethereal creatures cannot interact with corporeal creatures. How do incorporeal creatures interact with ethereal creatures though? Do incorporeal creatures act partially on the ethereal plane or is it something completely different?

Additionally:
Would a ghost touch weapon act on ethereal creatures when wielded by a corporeal...