http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/topic/17370/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html en-us Copyright 2006, Yuku feeds@yuku.com (FeedMaster) webmaster@yuku.com (WebMaster) Thu, 07 May 2009 13:47:47 GMT Tue, 12 May 2009 17:10:43 GMT Yuku Feeds 1.0 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss 60 http://static.yuku.com//feed/bypass/images/button-yuku.png http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/topic/17370/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html Yuku - free hosted forums and profiles 88 31 {pics-1.1 "http://www.icra.org/ratingsv02.html" l gen true for "http://yuku.com" r (nz 1 vz 1 lz 1 oz 1 cz 1 ) "http://www.rsac.org/ratingsv01.html" l gen true for "http://yuku.com" r (n 0 s 0 v 0 l 0 )) Search Domain q http://yuku.com/search/direct/ http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/reply/179512/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html#reply-179512
Not that it helps you tremendously, but the examples given all MAKE THE GAME MORE FUN, which is what the RAW sets forth as the DMs primary responsibility. Yes, we need a DMG with better examples, but I assure you one is coming. Recent DDI articles have not only elaborated on good Do's and Dont's of skill challenge... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Yobgod) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/sreply/179512 Tue, 12 May 2009 17:10:42 GMT http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/reply/179507/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html#reply-179507
It's true that "4E is a different game", the question is "Is it a game my gaming group wants to play?". I guess we'll find out.

]]> feeds@yuku.com (DarkHero69) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/sreply/179507 Tue, 12 May 2009 15:34:28 GMT http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/reply/179484/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html#reply-179484 If you just run... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (nostantine) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/sreply/179484 Mon, 11 May 2009 20:44:05 GMT http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/reply/179469/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html#reply-179469
Edit: Don't read the tone too strongly, it wasn't written or intended that way, though on rereading it came across that way even to me...
]]> feeds@yuku.com (DerekDyer) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/sreply/179469 Mon, 11 May 2009 15:01:00 GMT http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/reply/179449/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html#reply-179449 That's great and all, but if I wouldn't say "I make an athletics check so that I can catch up with him and possibly do something if other party members somehow do something related." I'm sure I'm making it sound worse than it is, but the fact of the matter is that if I want to catch up to the thief to stop him, and when the DM rules that despite my success I can't even make an attempt I really wonder how the heck that should be considered a... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Carthain) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/sreply/179449 Mon, 11 May 2009 10:10:52 GMT http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/reply/179437/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html#reply-179437 Except your reading it wrong. They lay out the basis for them, and then give examples. There's nothing that says it cannot be expanded on, or limitations can be set .. in fact, further products show us otherwise. I was looking through the undead book and it has things like you can use a skill, and you get a success if you make the check, up to X successes. So that would limit the 'skill spamming'. Yes, that's in another book, but there's nothing in the... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Zaraky) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/sreply/179437 Mon, 11 May 2009 07:46:32 GMT http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/reply/179432/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html#reply-179432 feeds@yuku.com (Neutronium Dragon) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/sreply/179432 Mon, 11 May 2009 07:29:41 GMT http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/reply/179425/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html#reply-179425 I am criticizing what's in the DMG because that is where they are published, and that's what most DM's are expected to go on.
Except your reading it wrong. They lay out the basis for them, and then give examples. There's nothing that says it cannot be expanded on, or limitations can be set .. in fact, further products show us otherwise. I was looking through the undead book and it has things like you can use a skill, and you get a success if... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Carthain) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/sreply/179425 Mon, 11 May 2009 06:23:46 GMT http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/reply/179424/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html#reply-179424
I think the main problem you are describing is that you as a DM and a player are letting the mechanics dominate the game. I have seen this happen with more DMs. Just because the rules now provide a fair non-arbitrary mechanism to (a) give xp and (b) deal with failure, does not mean you have to make the checks a bland string of rolls. Run it exactly as you would in 3E, do not mention it is a skill challenge and roll the dice against the necessary skills and DCs as it comes up... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (madfox) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/sreply/179424 Mon, 11 May 2009 06:17:07 GMT http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/reply/179423/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html#reply-179423 feeds@yuku.com (madfox) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/sreply/179423 Mon, 11 May 2009 05:56:08 GMT http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/reply/179422/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html#reply-179422 I've dealt with Skill Challenges as a DM, and also as a player, and to be completely honest, I don't like them very much. Don't get me wrong; I understand how to use them, and I like the concept very much, but my experience has been that they feel really ponderous when placed in an actual game.

The first time I used one as a DM, it involved the players navigating an ancient swamp in search of a ruined fortress. Players could use skills like Athletics (climb a tree... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (lol) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/sreply/179422 Mon, 11 May 2009 05:55:01 GMT http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/reply/179419/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html#reply-179419
What you've described differs on a few accounts. First, primary skills shift as the skill checks accumulate.
... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Zaraky) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/sreply/179419 Mon, 11 May 2009 05:20:16 GMT http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/reply/179413/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html#reply-179413
Let's give an example of how to design one of them... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Neutronium Dragon) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/sreply/179413 Sun, 10 May 2009 23:27:30 GMT http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/reply/179400/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html#reply-179400
One thing I definitely diverge from RAW on is that in most scenarios, I always tell my players that anything they can justify has a chance at working, so my 'primary skill list' is more "This Skill, That Skill, Anything Else You Can Justify". I like... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (durendal) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/sreply/179400 Sun, 10 May 2009 18:10:40 GMT http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/reply/179398/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html#reply-179398
If I have a resolution mechanic that requires... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Zaraky) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/sreply/179398 Sun, 10 May 2009 17:53:11 GMT http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/reply/179396/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html#reply-179396 feeds@yuku.com (durendal) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/sreply/179396 Sun, 10 May 2009 17:25:47 GMT http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/reply/179395/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html#reply-179395
Also, there is an immediately available measure of... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (durendal) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/sreply/179395 Sun, 10 May 2009 17:16:53 GMT http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/reply/179394/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html#reply-179394 Then the DM isn't doing his job, and the Barbarian isn't trying hard enough. We're looking at the rules as written. A good DM can fix most things, but it doesn't apply to mechanics as written. As written players can use the same skill, if a DM decides he can't then he's not using the DMG skill challenge rules (as far as I know). A Barbarian can once use perception (or a non primary), and even then he probably won't positively affect... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Zaraky) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/sreply/179394 Sun, 10 May 2009 16:53:46 GMT http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/reply/179393/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html#reply-179393 feeds@yuku.com (Neutronium Dragon) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/sreply/179393 Sun, 10 May 2009 16:36:11 GMT http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/reply/179392/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html#reply-179392 They don't encourage players to use different skills, in fact from what I can tell people can spam the same skills over and over again. They force people who would rather not participate in the challenge to try anyways (and possibly hurt the party, like a barbarian trying to persuade the duke).
Then the DM isn't doing his job, and the Barbarian isn't trying hard enough.

For spamming the same skill over and over, the DM can put a stop... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Carthain) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/sreply/179392 Sun, 10 May 2009 16:33:38 GMT http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/topic/17370/t/My-first-impressions-with-4E-and-a-lot-of-questions.html
Things have come full circle in my life and I'm interested in roleplaying again after playing only occasionally in the past few years (dam MMOs). I've been roleplaying for around 30 years now, starting with the "basic" red box of D&D back in 1978, lol.

I was given 4E as a gift last year and haven't gotten around to reading it until now. I'll give you my first impression of it (I've read most of the PBH and some of the DMs) but... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (DarkHero69) http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/topic/17370 Thu, 07 May 2009 13:47:47 GMT