The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

Re: The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (samathis) — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 14:34:25 GMT

Fair enough.

For another day, then.

Re: The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (Mellowship Slinky) — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 14:12:02 GMT

samathis wrote:
I could get behind the use of tokens in 4e. Just as long as it's simplified from what's there now. Having to keep track of 3 different types of tokens for one character (one for Class Abilities and then two others for Feat Masteries or whatnot) is just not elegant.

But what do I know?

Tokens are much more elegant than you seem to be portraying them. Most of my...

Re: The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (samathis) — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 13:48:43 GMT

I agree about Traits.

Sorry I forgot about Warlord. I don't know if he actually replaces the Hunter class, though.We'll have to wait and see how the class comes together in the PHB. Good catch, though.

Re: The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (SeanKhan) — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 13:29:49 GMT

samathis wrote:
3. PC's who are comparable in power to a D&D PC without having excessive equipment (magic or otherwise).
In 4e, I think this becomes less of an issue. It really seems that playing a no-magic game in 4e will involve a small and easy-to-implement tweak to character advancement and then disallowing non-Martial classes. But where 4e can...

Re: The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (samathis) — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 11:46:25 GMT

I could get behind the use of tokens in 4e. Just as long as it's simplified from what's there now. Having to keep track of 3 different types of tokens for one character (one for Class Abilities and then two others for Feat Masteries or whatnot) is just not elegant.

But what do I know?

The chances of me writing IH4e are even slimmer than anything I say influencing it. Which is to say... zero and less than zero.

And I will definitely buy whatever is...

Re: The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (Mellowship Slinky) — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 10:52:38 GMT

Token abilities will probably mostly fall into two categories:

1. Use some tokens to buff an at-will ability.
2. Use some tokens to repeat an Encounter ability.

There's also tokens as reaction, tokens as special ability, etc.

Re: The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (Confused Jackal Mage) — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 10:29:39 GMT

But one of the criticisms of IH is that tokens are an added currency for abilities that are seldom used in place of a standard full-round attack.

Honestly, this was because full-attacks were so powerful as to be nearly broken, at least in comparison to any other standard-action ability. ^_^

If you rip out the full-attack, the token abilities become a lot more attractive. And guess what 4e has done?

I do agree that some of the abilities can...

Re: The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (samathis) — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 09:38:59 GMT

Good point, MSlinky.

Perhaps IH4e could find a better way to represent this than tokens. Not saying tokens are bad.

But one of the criticisms of IH is that tokens are an added currency for abilities that are seldom used in place of a standard full-round attack.

I think one of the things IH4e would have to address is how to "recharge" those per encounter abilities without incurring any additional math or the need to keep track of multiple sets of...

Re: The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (Mellowship Slinky) — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 22:13:14 GMT

Token abilities still have a place. They occupy an interesting area between at-will and per-encounter abilities. They're abilities that can be used multiple times per encounter, but refresh based on something other than if you've gotten 5 minutes to catch your breath.

Re: The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (samathis) — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 20:46:33 GMT

I hear ya, MSlinky.

I think if there's a 4e version of IH it will be at least as different as 4e is to 3.5. Maybe more so.

Of the items that were listed for IH...

1. Token based abilities
I think the Token-based abilities will go away. Or be streamlined greatly. I don't see any reason for Token-based abilities in 4e. Not when we can have at-will, per-encounter, per-day and, perhaps, spend-an-Action-Point abilities.

Re: The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (Mellowship Slinky) — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 19:22:29 GMT

To me, the new license looks like it's going to specifically get rid of books like True20 and Mutants & Masterminds. I don't think this is wholly a bad thing, since whenever I have to deal with those systems I just grimace at how much they've ripped off the SRD ("I've got an idea, lets make an entire PHB based on the generic classes from Unearthed Arcana." I know it's not entirely that, but it smacks of just D&D chopped into little pieces and glued back...

Re: The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (samathis) — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 10:49:29 GMT

I've been concerned about the first question Torq mentions and I'll say I agreed with him at first. But reading more about what WotC are doing with the GSL, I think it's entirely doable.

The basic difference between the new GSL and the old OGL is that the PHB is now a requirement for any publication using the system. Not that everything in the PHB must be used but that all of the rules and stuff in the PHB serves as a base for the third-party publication. At least...

Re: The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (Torq) — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 08:08:58 GMT

I think we are all putting the cart before the horse. There are two major questions: Firstly will it be possible under the new OGL to make a new IH compatible to 4e, and secondly would it be necessary and useful to make a new IH compatible to 4e. Everyone is happily musing about the second question. I think most of the people on this board agree that we want IH to continue. I think we agree that it would be better for it to mesh with whatever 4e brings to the table. My concern is simply...

Re: The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (doeey) — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 05:08:36 GMT

I agree with all of you. I have played the 4E sample and it seems promising. I played the half-elf warlock, really cool stuff and 1st level PC's seem like 5th level PC's, also there is no need of certain classes for a party to be complete, that's what I like the most. But as far as combining IH with 4E; it seems to me that the powers in 4E, At-Will, Encounter, Daily, or comparable to the IH mastery feats in a way. They both give the PC an extension of power without depending on...

Re: The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (Mellowship Slinky) — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:50:19 GMT

based on these character sheets http://picasaweb.google.com/gertiebarden/4eCharacterSheets/

I'd say that IH will be portable to 4e very easily.

I'm getting excited!

Re: The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (SeanKhan) — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 08:54:38 GMT

Recent previews and spoilers have given a lot to think about. I've been running my IH campaign at slow, steady pace, and haven't thougt a lot about it. Now I'm excited about 4E, and have started to see a lot in common with IH; Healing bursts are close to reserve points, manoeuvers are something between feats & stunts, less dependency on magic... And like I mentioned in a thread in a 4e discussion I - and many others I believe - are likely very willing to get rid of 3E -parts...

Re: The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (samathis) — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:15:10 GMT

Add me as another IH aficionado who would love to see a 4e version. I agree with Mellowship Slinky that a lot of 4e will probably replace what we know from the existing IH books.

Not only a couple of classes, but also stunts and zones may see comparable "official" rules in 4e.

I could see IH 4e becoming a lot tighter and focused on the classes, Villain classes and heroic adventuring in a low-magic world.

Re: The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (Mellowship Slinky) — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 16:28:47 GMT

Since Mearles wrote a lot of 4e I'm expecting all of the good parts of IH to be easily transferable to 4e. I'm also expecting a lot of IH to become reduntant, replace the weapon master and man at arms with the 4e fighter, that kind of thing.

Re: The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (Doug Ervin) — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 07:39:48 GMT

There is a large thread on ENWorld concerning porting Iron Heroes to 4e. One of the major points is taking out magical items is much easier in 4e than 3e. Michael Mearls ensured the flexibility to adapt to both a low magic campaign or a high magic one. So writing a IH suppliment containing the IH classes and mastery feats should be doable. We'll have to wait and see.

Doug

Re: The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (hagen kirk) — Sun, 17 Feb 2008 20:03:53 GMT

Basically w/the current OGL you can keep producing products that fit that one (heck you can use the 1.0 OGL if you really want) and it will be fine. A supplement for 4E that uses the core races and classes and such and provides twists to them to make a game that feels like Iron Heroes would likely be possible. A situation like now, IH/AE/etc as variant PHBs encompassing all aspects of their game, probably not so much from what I can tell. Then again, IANAL, so who knows.

The 4e OGL & it's impact on Iron Heroes.

feeds@yuku.com (Akoss) — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:27:29 GMT

I'm sure most are aware of the 4e OGL announcement/conference call today, though if not you find the details of it here: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=215976

What I found potentially disturbing is this comment I found on the RPGnet forums.

In the publisher courtesy call, Scott Rouse and Bill Slavicek made it explicitly clear that products released to support Dungeons...